Failing mixdown

[emonteirobr]

Hello Listers,

This is my first post here. It's so good to see so many good engineers among Pyramix users. This is very good company
I'm new to Pyramix, having installed it 13 days ago. For now I'm in my third SD editing, with takes originally recorded on PT and Samplitude, imported as AAF.
On the first two little pieces I edited, 1 and 2 min each, I had one source and one destination track group, 8 channels each.
The third piece is for piano solo with 6 channels and 20 takes, 4:30 min long, so that I decided to assemble 20 sources and 1 destination group. (Yes, I dared)
For some reason, (my lack of experience with Pmx) the Dest group got positioned under "Source 020", not over "Source 001" as usual, but editing resulted OK.
The problem: on this 20 sources project, the exported mix, be it through rendering, CD image publishing or Mixing, real time or not is always a silent file. The client waits for an MP3, but until now, I can't have any kind of output for this project, although I can listen normally through the mixer.
The two first pieces rendered without any problems to MP3 and WAV though.
Could it be the result of the positioning of the Dest group?
Thanks in advance for any help

Best Regards

[fl]

I don't think that the positioning of the Destination group should have any effect, but then again, I've never done a session with more than one or two Source Groups. I have done many editing projects, some with the Destination positioned above the Source, and others with the positions reversed, and I've found no difference in Pyramix's ability to output sound, create mixes, renders, or CD Images - as long as I have all parameters set up correctly.

I have found that the Source-Destination Grouping and Editing process is very picky about having the Track structure of Source and Destination being exact mirrors of each other - if there is any disparity between the order and number of Tracks in the two Groups, the results are unpredictable (and usually unpleasant). If you wish to make use of multiple Track Groups as you described with your 20 Source/1 Destination session, make sure you create each new Source Group by using the "Make a Copy..." function found in the Track Groups Tab. This method is much quicker, easier and more reliable than adding new Tracks manually, where the opportunity to make tiny but significant errors is much greater.

As an alternative to creating sessions with one Track Group per Take, might I respectfully suggest you consider the use of Playlists, within a single Track Group. While you lose the ability to see all your work at once, possibly even with the Clips positioned so that everything is aligned in time, you do gain the ability to have a simplified, and possibly less confusing display, while still having almost instant access to any Take you desire.

There is one catch, however. If you start out with just a simple recording session, with one Track Group for everything and the option enabled to create a new Playlist automatically with each new recording - when it comes time to duplicate the Tracks to create the new Destination Track Group for editing you must place the new Tracks (and Track Group) below the existing Tracks, otherwise you will lose all your Playlists. This is the only case where the positioning of the Destination Track Group has had any effect on my ability to Edit.

It did take a bit of mental adjustment to get used to editing "down" instead of "up", but once that was accomplished, I found that I was much more comfortable with a single Source Group, knowing for sure that I am indeed working with the Take number I intend (I have vision difficulties and sometime the tiny print is hard for me to see).

None of this, however, addresses your inability to output audio from a Mixdown, Render or CD Image creation - that's just weird, and I suspect that some user error has evaded your detection, quite probably to do with the settings in the Mixdown window and/or the Album Publishing (if that is being used). Certainly, the Destination Group should be in (Track) solo prior to entering into the Mix or CD Image generation process - or the proper Clips should be highlighted prior to doing a Render. In the Mixdown or Generate CD Image window, you should highlight the correct channels of the correct output Bus - and only those channels. The proper time range should be selected - the whole composition, the range between the red and green Marks, or the Clips that have been highlighted by Selection. Missing one of these steps will result in nothing being output.

When you say that your output files are silent - how are you listening to these? Are you highlighting in the Media Manager and playing back in the Trimmer? Are you mounting the newly created files onto existing or new Tracks in the main Timeline to be monitored through the Mixer? Are you listening to the files through some third party playback software like Windows Media Player, Silverlight or Foobar2000?

If you have purchased the Annual Software Maintenance, you might try contacting Merging Support directly, attaching a copy of your Project file (just the .pmx file, no media), so that they can examine how you've set things up and quite possibly identify the crucial error causing your difficulties.

[Thomas Grubb]

Hi Eduardo,

In addition to what Frank has said, you can easily change the order of groups by selecting the destination tracks in the Tracks tab and dragging them to the new position...I tend to create a destination group with auto-solo or auto-mute selected, then just duplicate it and change the new group to source. Also, if you have 20 sources, I'd check the free zoom checkbox in the destination group and leave it unchecked in the sources (or something like that...I'm not at the computer right now)...that will keep all the sources time-aligned above each other for easy editing when zooming, and the destination can have a different and free zoom level.

Mix down should work if you select the edited clips in the destination (easy to group them all in the final edited piece and select them) and make sure selected range is chosen in the mixdown window (which should automatically be). Remember to regroup them if you do further editing as any new clips won't be selected and will end up silent in the mixdown! ... Or use the left/right locator method...

Good luck!
Tom

[emonteirobr]

Dear Frank,

Thank you very much for your help. The problem was in the mixer. Once I loaded a preset from the organize tab, I could produce a sound file instead of a silent one.

I don't think that the positioning of the Destination group should have any effect, but then again, I've never done a session with more than one or two Source Groups. I have done many editing projects, some with the Destination positioned above the Source, and others with the positions reversed, and I've found no difference in Pyramix's ability to output sound, create mixes, renders, or CD Images - as long as I have all parameters set up correctly.

I have found that the Source-Destination Grouping and Editing process is very picky about having the Track structure of Source and Destination being exact mirrors of each other - if there is any disparity between the order and number of Tracks in the two Groups, the results are unpredictable (and usually unpleasant). If you wish to make use of multiple Track Groups as you described with your 20 Source/1 Destination session, make sure you create each new Source Group by using the "Make a Copy..." function found in the Track Groups Tab. This method is much quicker, easier and more reliable than adding new Tracks manually, where the opportunity to make tiny but significant errors is much greater.

This was exactly the way I did it, with the "make a copy" command. The Dest track has only two different parameters in relation to the Source tracks: Keep cursor and Free Markers were the solution I found in order for the track groups to operate synced to each other (zoom etc. wise).

As an alternative to creating sessions with one Track Group per Take, might I respectfully suggest you consider the use of Playlists, within a single Track Group. While you lose the ability to see all your work at once, possibly even with the Clips positioned so that everything is aligned in time, you do gain the ability to have a simplified, and possibly less confusing display, while still having almost instant access to any Take you desire.

There is one catch, however. If you start out with just a simple recording session, with one Track Group for everything and the option enabled to create a new Playlist automatically with each new recording - when it comes time to duplicate the Tracks to create the new Destination Track Group for editing you must place the new Tracks (and Track Group) below the existing Tracks, otherwise you will lose all your Playlists. This is the only case where the positioning of the Destination Track Group has had any effect on my ability to Edit.

It did take a bit of mental adjustment to get used to editing "down" instead of "up", but once that was accomplished, I found that I was much more comfortable with a single Source Group, knowing for sure that I am indeed working with the Take number I intend (I have vision difficulties and sometime the tiny print is hard for me to see).

It did take a bit of mental adjustment to get used to editing "down" instead of "up", but once that was accomplished, I found that I was much more comfortable with a single Source Group, knowing for sure that I am indeed working with the Take number I intend (I have vision difficulties and sometime the tiny print is hard for me to see).

Thank you again for the suggestion. I know I have a ton of things to learn about Pyramix. Playlists is one of them. I'll study in the manual. The problem is that I'm changing vehicles while driving ...

If you have purchased the Annual Software Maintenance, you might try contacting Merging Support directly, attaching a copy of your Project file (just the .pmx file, no media), so that they can examine how you've set things up and quite possibly identify the crucial error causing your difficulties.

Yes, I am the happy owner of an ASM key. These guys will have something to tell me about their mixer, for sure.

Best Regards

[emonteirobr]

you can easily change the order of groups by selecting the destination tracks in the Tracks tab and dragging them to the new position...

Believe me Tom, this was the first thing I tried. On the Track Groups listing, the Dest group appears above all others, but it didn't change the position on the Timeline. Go figure!

I tend to create a destination group with auto-solo or auto-mute selected, then just duplicate it and change the new group to source. Also, if you have 20 sources, I'd check the free zoom checkbox in the destination group and leave it unchecked in the sources (or something like that...I'm not at the computer right now)...that will keep all the sources time-aligned above each other for easy editing when zooming, and the destination can have a different and free zoom level.

This is a good tip. Thank you

Mix down should work if you select the edited clips in the destination (easy to group them all in the final edited piece and select them) and make sure selected range is chosen in the mixdown window (which should automatically be). Remember to regroup them if you do further editing as any new clips won't be selected and will end up silent in the mixdown! ... Or use the left/right locator method...

Conundrum solved. If you have the Repro button pressed, the rendered, mixed, etc. files will be silent. My aim was to have all my saved mixers with the repro button pressed in order to prevent feedback during sessions, the way it is explained in the Manual page 215.
I couldn't imagine it would affect file writing, and humbly feel there could be some kind of warning about it, or that it shouldn't occur at all.

Thank you again Frank and Tom for the good suggestions. It's time for me to apply them. Your willingness to help this Pmx novice is very appreciated.

Best Regards