PC config / turnkey components

[MorganN]

Hi,

I was wondering if there are any plans on upgrading the PC config page anytime soon?

I'm currently working on two different systems:
A) turnkey spec. i5-2400 computer (on DQ67SW) running on Windows 7 32bit with Mykerinos/Masscore (at the mastering studio i work)
B) i7-2600 computer running on an Asus board on Windows 7 64bit with Pyramix Native. (my tracking/mixing computer)

While computer A is used for mastering only and machine B for tracking and mixing, the difference is night and day between the two computers.
Machine B (i7) is rock solid, while machine A has the white freeze screen etc.. Machine A also struggles with running CPU heavy plugins.

Why does Merging spec. a desktop computer (as i5's are not workstation CPU's) as a turnkey system and are there any plans on releasing an updated turnkey component list?
Any updates on 64bit Mykerinos/Masscore support?

Best,
Morgan

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Hi Morgan,

The future is Horus....

I also have a Mykerinos X30 masscore system, and I understand, but for my part, I plan to change for Horus, because it can work with any kind of computer, and with best performances. I have seen it in Merging's Home, very flexible, and performant.
It's the evolution,

Best,

Bernard

[redroomstudio]

I have been in contact with Merging and they are testing a few new motherbords but it might be a while until the results are out.
Just finished building a new computer for Myk board/Masscore but I have not had the time to test it yet. The board is an Asus p8q67 with Intel i7, will let you know how it works out.

Have to agree that Horus seems to be the future but could prove to be a bit pricey for my setup..

Best,
Morten

[Paulo M]

For a while, I´m under the impression that Pyramix Native works better than Masscore...I regret I didn´t buy Native in the first place. It seems that the ones who invested more are the ones that will loose more or have to invest in a sole proposition like Horus, if you want to keep working with your Masscore licenses.

To be honest and excuse me, my dear Merging friends, but Masscore didn´t prove it´s point over the years. I´ve seen people using Native whose systems are much faster. Unless you´re working with high track counts or doing DSD/DXD, Masscore at it´s present implementation, is a waste of money and prevents you to freely upgrade your systems. Not to mention that it´s useless as a form of adding extra processing power to VST plugins, which the majority of us use.

And to be honest, I don´t buy the idea, that it is not possible to have Masscore technology (core allocation, that is) without a Mykerinos or Horus. It´s just pure marketing and sales policy in my opinion.

With all due respect, no offense intended.

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Hi Dom Paulo,

I suggest you contact the Merging team, they can explain you all the story.

In "short" : Mykerinos X cards Masscore, were the future of Pyramix technologie. BUT, the manufacturers of motherboards have changed their architecture ( I simplify)

the only way was for Merging to create an independent hardware, that will be able to work with any laptop.

you must have to know that the PCI and PCIe are already obsolete and condemned, and Merging only adapt to new technologies that will more quickly every day !

For my part, I still working with my Mykerinos X30 Masscore, and I am very satisfied with it. But I work with a quad core based MB, and I can make a good work with big projects, (I also work simultaneousely with ASIO applications without any problem). when I have enough money, I will go to horus, without any kind of regrets

saudações amigas,

Best regards,

amical saludo,

amicales salutations,

joyeux Noêl,

sincères condoléances,

etc...

[Paulo M]

Hi Dom Bernard,

I think that you didn´t understand my remark about Masscore. I have a Mykerinos X50 MADI and a Myk MB5 Dual. At the time, you needed and still need it to run Pyramix in Mykerinos mode and take advantage of the cards processing power. Then came Masscore, with promises of lots of channels and unparaleled processing. You then still needed and now still need the cards (if you don´t have Horus) in order to run Masscore. At this point, the processing was transfered to one or more of the CPU cores, hidden from the OS and allocated to Pyramix and the cards were just doing I/O duties.Then came Pyramix Native, which is based on CPU power only, so no exclusive core allocation. Now, with Horus, Merging is saying that unless you buy it, you will be stuck with your Mykerinos cards, that won´t be compatible with a 64 bit OS. OK, so nothing lasts forever and advances in technology means that we as users need to re-invest in order to stay on top of what technology has to offer. No problems there, that´s life.

But what I don´t understand is that Native systems may in certain aspects have a superior performance in terms of CPU resources and be more open to new hardware than the Masscore versions that cost much more. For instance, a lot of graphic problems that plague Pyramix are probably due to Masscore itself. Not to mention that Masscore doesn´t play a part in VST plugin processing either, which we all know, is a major contributor to CPU resource consumption.

So now that Mykerinos are not needed for Masscore if you buy a Horus and like you say, PCIe implementation is getting to a botleneck, why can´t the Masscore technology be ported to Native systems? There are other systems that allocate CPU cores like Nuendo, even PT now has their RAM Disk cache which is even faster.

When I open an app like Reaper that costs 200 euros and allows you to insert lots of VST plugins without any white screens even during play mode, move stuff around between tracks in the mixer, works with VSTi instruments and a lot of other stuff to long to list here, I wonder why us, that invested thousands in Masscore with the promised of the paradise, are beeing left behind in terms of practical applications of the software.

So nothing against the Horus or the evolution of technologies, just wondering why Masscore is not doing what was promised in the first place. With the exception for large track counts and DSD/DXD as mentioned before. Regarding everything else, it´s a flop.

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Hi Dom Paulinho,

Pyramix whas, a recording, mixing, and mastering tool for acoustic music. The masscore option, whas, for example, the possibility of using VSTs in busses, external inserts, etc, etc, it whas for having the choice of using non Merging effects on busses, and more powerfull work. It whas the "future" Mykerinos based system.Now, in Native, using ASIO cards, you cannot have the same stability and latencies. You cannot have the same quality of audio managing (jitter etc...) If you change for Horus, you conserve your licences, the Horus only take place of the Mykerinos. With the lowest latency in the world. But I understand you very well, the only problem iis "communication" from Merging, they don't have explained very well the situation.

Best

Bernardinho de Lavalla

[MorganN]

So their dropping 64 bit OS support for the Mykerinos cards forcing people to go Horus..?
Sweet..

I'm off to the forest...

[Paulo M]

Dom Bernardito,

all PC based DAWs allowed VST on busses at the time, only Pyramix didn' t.

A lot of people have their own converters already, why do they have to change? For example, I have a Sphynx converter, so I will dump it on the bin and buy the Horus? It costed me 11 000 euros.

So if the Mykerinos doesn' t work in 64 bit, how can I use it with the Sphynx? Or maybe I buy an Horus without analogue cards, connect it to Pyramix via Ravenna and from there to the Sphynx via MADI so that I can use the analogue IO. What a rack! My bank manager is going to be happy!!!

No way. What I will do is to keep the Mykerinos until they burn and stick to 32 bit until Pyramix versions supports it.

Au revoir

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Hi,

You can of course keep your converter, Horus only take the place of the Mykerinos card, and work very better.

I understand that Mykerinos people are jealous of Native people, (they speak about it in the UNO... and it's the same with PT)

But I have tested (for recording the concert of a famous french artist) native version in ASIO mode, it's not the same, and definitely.

If the "most" in a studio is using VSTs, I agree with you,

but, exept denoising, pitch, etc, I prefer working with hardware.

The base of the problem whas the changes of Asus/Intel...

Imagine, every 6 month, you have to change completely your technology because of the MB manufacturers....

The idea of having an independent hardware that assume all audio tasks, is the only way (en el día de hoy) to avoid jog behind Asus/Intel...

Veuillez agréer, cher Dom Paulo, l'expression de mes sentiments les meilleurs, ainsi que mes salutations distinguées

Dom Bernardo de Lavalla

[Paulo M]

Bien sur, mais Horus c´est trés chére en comparison avec Mykerinos. Ces egiptians sons indomables, comme less gaulais de la petite village....

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Bien sur, mais Horus c´est trés chére en comparison avec Mykerinos. Ces egiptians sons indomables, comme less gaulais de la petite village....

¡excellente, hombre!

¡viva google traduction!



Dom Bernardito Asterix de Lavalla

PS: Horus pode adicionar opções depois... (google traduction !)

[Paulo M]

No no, no Google translation. It´s just the bits of my French, left from school days and from reading Tintin, Michel Vaillant and Astérix.

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Ah, alors là,

Respect



Best,

Bernardo de Lavalla

[Mario]

Paulo,

I believe Latency is the key word here.

Indeed, if you are only mixing with VST plugins, it is better to have a native system with all the cores available in the computer for the plugins than a masscore system that leave the PC with less cores available for VST processing.

If you put into the equation the latency, then things changes, as a masscore system will be more faster than a native system.

Masscore is a parallel OS running in the computer, not an OS inside an OS. as such, Masscore does writes and reads operations directly to the hardware, in your case, to the mykerinos cards, how? since the mykerinos cards is developed by Merging, they can do that without any problem.

What about the future of Mykerinos boards, well, people is claiming for 64 bit OS. Merging evaluate that is not worth it for them (as a relative small company) to develop, debug and maintain a new driver for the mykerinos card. they evaluate instead a new I/O scheme: Ravenna. The Mykerinos has no place in the future (like Fire Wire and other technologies that we see or saw).

It is easier to see Masscore as an OS that doesn´t use keyboard, mouse and monitor. This OS doesn´t talk to the Horus, it really does to the Network card, so what you really need to run Masscore is the network card that Merging supply to that use. you will say, what?! it didn´t use any normal network card?
well ... no. Any hardware device needs a driver to be mounted in order to be used under any OS, so we need a "Masscore Driver" for the network card. Merging can only address resources to do one driver for an specific network card, so basically, is that special network card what you need to run Masscore on a pyramix system.

If you happen to have other Ravenna interface you can use it (instead of the horus).
For the time being, Merging only have the Horus, but maybe it is on their list a low cost 8 channels in, 8 channels out, but again they are putting all their efforts in the Horus (I will do the same thing).

What Merging has on the next plan is to develop a Ravenna native driver (ASIO and Core Audio), how does that work? with this driver, you can use any network card in your computer, but as nothing is free in this life, this is a "native" driver, so you will have native latencies and you will have a maximum of 64 channels at 1Fs.

I hope this brings another approach to the table

regards

Mario