Swappable mixers for mastering

[per]

In many mastering situations I have felt a strong need for the possibility of doing A - B comparisons between two different mixer setups. There are many plug-ins that have this feature, but I would like to have it for the full mixer. This would probably require that two (or more?) mixers are "active" simultaneously (with plug-ins and all), but that only one is visible and produces output at the main bus.
The possibility to swap between two mixers during playback would be really cool - and helpful.
It is of course possible to get something like this by using e.g. vca strips, but that would not then include swapping the settings on the main bus.

How about that?
Cheers
Per

[fl]

This is a work-around, but you could probably get close to what you're after by using the "Shared Mixer" feature, where you'd create a new session for each different mix(er) you'd like to audition. Then, you'd just turn the feature on and off every time you'd like to change back and forth. Sadly, this won't work during playback - you'd have to wait for a mixer re-build each time. Details in the manual starting on page 10-226.

[per]

Yes, that's right. But what I'm after is the instant swap. If there is a 5-10 seconds paus, then the moment is gone, right? You will no longer be able to hear the subtle differences. And we're looking for subtle differences to get closer to perfection. At least I am.
I'm nearly there

Thanks Frank!
Per

[fl]

Yes, that's right. But what I'm after is the instant swap.

Yeah, I understand. The word from the Beta Testers is that the mixer rebuilding is going to be faster in version 8. We live in hope...

I wonder if you couldn't get what you're after by setting up a mixer with more than one Mix Bus - each with its own chain of plug-ins. Level differences of individual channels would have to be handled by the bus send level at the top of each strip. Then, to do a quick A-B, you'd use the Monitor Control Panel to switch between the two (or more) busses.

Of course, running two chains of processor hungry plugins might seriously tax any but the most mighty systems...

[per]

Aahh! Good point! That seems to be a good way to do it. Never thought of that.
Many thanks, Frank and Graemme.

I love this forum
Per

[Larry Elliott]

Hi Graemme

have looked at you picture but cant exactly work out where the monitoring points are.
Larry

[Graemme]

Hi Larry,

The 'Sources' section on the left of the monitor panel selects which bus to listen to.

'ST3' is the unadorned source audio, played from the 'source' track group

'ST2' is the chain of plug-ins that precedes the send to the analogue processing loop

'ST1' is the output of the Pyramix desk, after the final bus limiter

'A1' is my rarely used reverb send bus

If I wanted to, I could have added a bus to pick up the return from the analogue loop (mixer strip #2) and listen before the bus limiter, but this thing is already complicated enough.

Cheers,

Graemme

[per]

Graemme!
Actually, I couldn't see anything in your rtf file. Could you make it a PDF?
Per

[Larry Elliott]

Graemme

The image I got did not show the outputs of the mixer hence the confusion.
L

[Graemme]

Here's a PDF of the same setup, with the I/O routing displayed. The forum does not allow PDF files to be uploaded, hence the external link.


https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1731497005/d ... 87a83e9961

gb

[per]

Many thanks!
Per

[avi]

Dear Merging folk - this is a complex way to have to solve a simple problem. Of course, back in Pyramix version 5, the user could just store complete mixer settings in the Library, and drag'n'drop on to the mixer surface - without delay or time-penalty to reconstruct the mixer (I exclude VST plugins from that).

I'm still at a loss to understand why this rather handy feature was lost and hasn't come back again. It's useful for situations like this one (and also when doing a live recording fully ITB, wanting to switch mixer settings from one piece to the next swiftly). I still run a v5 system for this, which I won't be upgrading until this is back...

[fl]

Dear Merging folk - this is a complex way to have to solve a simple problem. Of course, back in Pyramix version 5, the user could just store complete mixer settings in the Library, and drag'n'drop on to the mixer surface - without delay or time-penalty to reconstruct the mixer (I exclude VST plugins from that).

In Native Version 7.1.10, I find that I can do exactly what you are describing, although it's neither easy or intuitive.

Right click on the mixer and a pop-up appears - select Memory > Presets, which reveals a menu with the options to Recall Routing, Recall State, Store and Remove mixer presets. When you store a new Mixer State Preset, you have the option to make it Global (available to all projects) or specific to the current Project only.

You can have a Mixer all set up with Plug-ins, including VSTs, and save a Preset with the current mix and plug-ins settings. Then you can modify the mix, and adjust the plug-ins' controls, save another Preset, then switch back to the first, and so on. Fader positions, pan, etc. as well as VST (and I assume VS3) Plug-in settings and whether their window is open or not, get stored in the Preset. You can even have Presets with completely different plug-ins, although there might be a short delay while the one preset loads over the other, but it doesn't take as long as a complete mixer rebuild.

It's a little cumbersome to have to right-click and then snake your way through the sub-menues, and it would be much better if a macro or some other quick key combination could be assigned to the various presets, but if you wish to have access to two or more different mixers, this capability exists, and apart from my studge-fingers working the mouse, it's fairly quick, in the sense that you can compare two different mixes in a short enough space of time that you do not lose your memory of the first waiting for the second to load.

I'm still at a loss to understand why this rather handy feature was lost and hasn't come back again. It's useful for situations like this one (and also when doing a live recording fully ITB, wanting to switch mixer settings from one piece to the next swiftly). I still run a v5 system for this, which I won't be upgrading until this is back...

I had a project where I was recording the concert and providing a mix for a live stream, so I created a set of Mixer Presets to do exactly what you describe - to have a series of "scenes" available to quickly change the mix from one act to the next, without a lengthy delay or a disruption to the audio in the form of a click or pop. True, the transition is instantaneous, so an audible change can be heard, but that's unavoidable, and perhaps can be minimized by choosing the right moment to switch. For a mastering situation, it can work as you describe with few problems apart from the less-than-elegant method of accessing the presets.

I've found that you can save a Mixer State as a Library, by holding Shift and Alt and dragging the mixer to the open Library Tab. Once you have a few mixer setups in there, you can simply drag and drop from the Library Tab to the Mixer to make the change. Going this route seems to require a Mixer Rebuild operation, as opposed to what happens when you use the Right Click/Popup Menu method, so it takes longer. Also, I've managed to crash Pyramix more often dragging Library files onto the mixer - especially when the Mixer state contains a memory hungry Plug-in, like Izotope Ozone 5. It's rare that I've crashed Pyramix using the pop-up menu method whether or not I'm switching to or from a Preset that uses Ozone. I'm still working on a computer with a Core II Duo processor with only 2 gigs of ram, so that may be part of my problem, but like I said, fewer crashes using the pop-up menu.

[per]

Hello Frank.

I was not aware that you could actually recall a mixer during playback this way. Fairly neat Unfortunately, with the project I tested, PMX crashes every time I try to do this. My guess is that this happens because I'm using the VST plugin Altiverb. This is a real pain-in-the ass plugin and Merging and Audio Ease have not been able to make this plug work properly. I'm only using it because they have a large library of measured IR's and until I have measured my own responses i'm stuck with it. There are more stable convolution plugs, like the one from Voxengo.

Anyway, I'll definitely try to use this feature to swap mixers.
Thanks!
Per

[avi]

Hi Frank,
That's good to know, thanks. It remains a PITA of a workaround for something which was working just fine years ago, and for no good reason has disappeared. . .

Per - I rather like Altiverb on the occasions I've used it, it's more a Pyramix integration issue than a problem with the plug-in itself (there seem to be any number of satisfied users on other platforms).