Re ordering CD

[flurdee]

Slight frustration when changing the order of a cd - any fades that go over the track makers get cut. Would it be possible to have a button that keeps each file as it is and just puts the audio files on top of each other with their fades intact? Would save alot of time and frustration!

[fl]

I've been asking for this for years.

It's especially frustrating when you re-order a CD, and everything looks good, but you find out later - after some strange behaviour - that you left some little sliver of audio file, less than a CD frame long, at the old location. These "slivers" (usually the extreme ends of fades) can be almost impossible to see unless you zoom in a lot, but they will prevent you from slipping clips in the timeline, as though an invisible barrier is there. This leads to always having to perform the tedious task of zooming in all the way, and then jumping through your CD from marker to marker, to see whether there are any fades extending beyond the CD Markers' positions.

A solution could be as simple as changing the positioning routines used when manually placing CD markers anywhere other than right on a CD Frame boundary: always "round down" to the previous CD frame when placing CD Starts, and always "round up" to the next CD frame when placing a CD Stop. The "CD Mark Groups" function should also have this automatic capability, at least as an option.

Yes, you can set up something like this, using the CD offsets defined in the Settings, but there are times when having this enabled just isn't convenient. Also, placing CD Markers with the Offsets enabled seems to be hit or miss - sometimes they are moved, other times they stay exactly where you placed them, and I haven't been able to figure out how you control what happens when.

For cases where audio clips extend more than a single CD frame beyond the currently selected CD "zone", would a pop-up window asking for confirmation be too much to ask? Then, at least, you'd have the security of knowing that Pyramix is aware of what is going on when you place a CD Start in the middle of a clip, as would be the case when defining movements in a multi-movement work joined by unbroken gaps of room tone.

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Hi,
Or a function like this : "CD markers snaped to media" or "CD markers snaped to clips"
Or : in the clip locking menu: "lock CD markers to clips"
in fact, roughly the same as media markers, but for CD markers.
Best regards,
Bernard

[rathammer]

For me, what's just as frustrating is the jumping of clips to the first track when changing the CD order. A typical master for me is to have a separate track for each song on the cd to get separate processing. Now when I change the order by dragging the cd tracks in the CD/SACD-grid, the moved track jumps to track 1. Why?

[fl]

For me, what's just as frustrating is the jumping of clips to the first track when changing the CD order. A typical master for me is to have a separate track for each song on the cd to get separate processing. Now when I change the order by dragging the cd tracks in the CD/SACD-grid, the moved track jumps to track 1. Why?

I'm a little confused by what you mean by "track" in your description - There are the multiple tracks in Pyramix - horizontal strips each containing material on different channels in the mixer, and there are the Tracks that make up the running order of the CD, Track 1 being the first heard selection, followed by Track 2, and so on. For clarity's sake, let's refer to those things on a CD as "Cuts", Cut 1 followed by Cut 2, etc.

Also, when you say that you want to apply separate processing to each Cut, do you mean that you are doing this prior to mixing down to a two track master, or are you attempting to apply different processing to separate cuts, all in the same Pyramix project? This kind of "Object Oriented" processing is not available in Pyramix, unless you are rendering new files. For Object Oriented processing you need a different DAW like Sequoia or Samplitude.

Your description seems to indicate that all your multi-track clips are winding up in Pyamix's horizontal Track 1, and I must say I've never seen that happen. If you mean that when you change the running order of your CD - say, exchanging the positions of Cuts 3 and 4 - when you move Cut 4 it jumps to the front of the line and becomes Cut 1?

Finally, you ARE doing this in the top part of the CD/SACD Tab, correct? Moving things there will move the material between the CD markers around in time. If you use the list in the bottom right area, you just move the markers themselves, not the audio content.

One last thing - in the CD/SACD Tab, bottom left area, scroll all the way down through the various entries to where you see something like "CD markers are applied to...", and make sure that it is set to "All Tracks".

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Hi, Rathamer,
In fact, you can easely make a CD project with each "song" (or title) in a stereo track (in the timeline),
and each track linked to a mixer strip, so, you can add all the effects you whant for each "song" of your CD.
You can easely make your cd project directly, in : CD markers / create CD markers, in a multitrack project, it's not a problem, I make it "every day".
If you whant, I can send you screen captures.
best regards,

Bernard from A 3 Studio

[rathammer]

Hi Bernhard,

Yes, I know - That's what i do all the time with no problem. My trouble starts when re-ordering the cuts of the cd within the upper section of the CD/SACD grid: the clips get moved in time correctly but are "shot upwards" to the first stereo track in the timeline (and thus playing back via the 1st strip of the mixer).

In another thread I also read about super small portions of those clips remaining on the original timeline track but I never had that problem...

Best,
Andreas.

(Btw we know each other from are some 10 years ago, remember?)

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

Hi,
Realy ? ?
I'm not sure...
For the re ordering CD, I send you a reply today

Bernard
from A 3 Studio

[allemano bernard@neuf.fr]

OUPS ! ! !
Sorry ! ! Now, I remember ! ! !
it's amazing ! (Now AGUAS don't exist, but I am in construction of a new musical project...)
Well, for the ordering CD, you are right, ( it's not a function I use )
you can change directly the place of the clips in the timeline, and generate new markers...
I go to tell it to the Merging Team if you whant ?

10 years... pffffouuuuu ! ! !

Very best regards,

Bernard from A 3 Studio

[fl]

I've had a chance to test things out, and I can confirm Andreas' findings. The "Track Jumping" behaviour is related to the setting for "Markers are Linked To..." found in the "Tree View" (lower left) section of the CD/SACD Tab (right at the bottom, so scroll down), and the arrangement of the Tracks in Track Groups. (Also, seemingly, when and how tracks and mixer strips were added - before or after CD markers were applied, and when and how Tracks were added or removed from Track Groups.)

When markers are linked to "Any Track" the track jumping occurs - material that exists on, say, tracks 3 and 4 will be moved to Tracks 1 and 2. If material was originally occupying Tracks 3, 4, 5 and 6, after the re-ordering, they appear on 1, 2, 3 and 4. If they were on 3, 5 and 6, they wind up on 1, 3 and 4.

With the markers linked to "Any Track without Group", the behaviour seems to be the same, although in some cases, the Markers moved, but the media didn't. This last case was after adding a new stereo strip and tracks, moving them to the top of the timeline, and not adding them to the pre-existing Track Group. Things got confusing there, where some operations seemed to Ripple the media after clips were moved to other Tracks, even though "Auto-Ripple" was not enabled in the Edit menu.

With the markers linked to a specific Track Group, reordering is confined to that Track Group - for all the good that does you in terms of re-ordering the entire CD. If you put all the Tracks into the same Track Group, named, for example "All", then the re-ordering will exhibit this Track jumping behaviour, unless you keep Tracks 1 and 2 out of the Group, in which case, my head starts to hurt.

With the markers linked to "Independent", the Markers moved, but the clips didn't (which is just retarded). This was the case for all Track Grouping permutations.

So, folks, it looks like we've got ourselves a brand new baby Bug, in all its Kafka-esque splendor. Time for an email to David Jacques. Because of the complex interactions of CD Markers, Marker/Group associations, and Track Groups, I'd suggest that if you are going to apply separate processing to each cut on a CD, the workaround would be to Mix each one down to a stereo pair, and then place these stereo pairs in sequence in a new project with only two Tracks in a single Track Group. Then you'll be able to play about with re-ordering - just watch out for "slivers".

[fl]

I heard back from David; they already know about the Re-ordering bug, and it's in the list of things to be fixed in some future update.

[rathammer]

PLEASE !!! MERGING !!! This bug has been around for such a long time ! Please give it priority. Just like THESE:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10078#p31607

THOSE should be on top priority for v9 almost before most other things or new gadgets.

Please get back to the basics!