Mixer rebuild time.

[redroomstudio]

Hi

Been using Pyramix for a while and I am extremely happy and comfortable mastering/mixing in MassCore (if only this post could end here.....)
The one thing that continues to bug me is the rebuild time of the mixer in large projects. If I decide to add an effect in a large mixer that is already filled with inserts it takes too long in my opinion to get the mixer "back".

Anyone have any information if this something we have to live with in the future or are Merging working on this?

Best regards,
Morten
Redroom Studio

[tweakin]

I have to agree with this. For me it takes way tooo looong for the mixer to rebuild when effect plugins are instantiated. And the time it takes to change the plugin order is also a deal breaker.
It just kills my mixing mojo. I only use Pyramix for hi sample rate tracking and stereo mastering now. I just can't get any feel mixing in Pyramix compared to Samplitude for example.
Sorry to complain as there are many things like about Pyramix

[Graemme]

I think it's actually *worse* in the latest release version and completely agree with the 'vibekill' comments...

Graemme

[David Jacques]

Does it seems to happens with VST's plugins ?
May is ask you to send projects for benchmarking purpose to [url]support@merging.com[/url], and specify how the VST plugins inserted are authorized ?
We could then take a closer look to it.

Thank you

[phaseboy]

FWIW - you can benchmark all you want - but unless something is changed that allows a plugin to be added, removed, order changed without having to rebuild/reload the entire mixer you're unlikely to improve upon on this. It's not just vst - it takes way too long if you're using only merging vs3 plugins imo (perhaps not as long but either way it's too much waiting and not enough working). In fact I would suggest that we should ideally be able to add a plugin to a strip during playback without affecting anything but that specific strip for a brief moment.

M

PS: On a related note (correct me if I'm missing a new modifier key or something). It used to be that if you dragged a mixer snapshot from a library onto a mixer it would simply restore the settings (ie fader/plugin/pan etc... positions/levels/setting) but not rebuild the mixer in it's entirety. If you had different plugins/channels etc... you could ctrl drag the snapshot which would then rebuild the mixer completely. It seems that now no matter what you do the mixer is rebuilt - which is frustrating as I really like being able to quickly compare different overall balances on the fly during playback. (note this change was a while ago - I forget at which point).

[Ricardo Ryan]

Hi Mark,

We first want to see if the new version has a regression (vs. the previous ones). This is why we would like in the first place to see what kind of project you are using and if the slowness of Mixer Rebuild is our fault and if it was introduced by us. It could well be related to third party VST plug-ins also.

Under our current Mixer architecture we cannot avoid the Mixer Rebuild for multiple reasons. Avoiding rebuilds is not a new request as we well know that this has been wanted for a while. It is in our future plans already to improves this, but it is not such an easy task to address for the moment, we will re-evaluate.

Best Regards,
Ricardo

Merging Technologies

[phaseboy]

sounds good

[tweakin]

Hi Mark,


Under our current Mixer architecture we cannot avoid the Mixer Rebuild for multiple reasons. Avoiding rebuilds is not a new request as we well know that this has been wanted for a while. It is in our future plans already to improves this, but it is not such an easy task to address for the moment, we will re-evaluate.

Best Regards,
Ricardo

Merging Technologies

Until the current Mixer architecture is improved to avoid Mixer Rebuild each time an effect is instantiated I will not be using or recommending Pyramix as a music mixing solution. This is a great pity for me because I own Pyramix 6.x and want to use it with my high end clients but simply can't because the workflow is just too slow for music mixing in comparison to every other DAW on the market. In addition, this obviously directly deters me from investing any further in my Pyramix rig which is again a pity because Pyramix has many great features and a superb sonic characteristic that takes 'in the box' mixing to a new level in currently available DAW's.
Win us back or loose us - your choice Merging!

[Ricardo Ryan]

Until the current Mixer architecture is improved to avoid Mixer Rebuild each time an effect is instantiated I will not be using or recommending Pyramix as a music mixing solution. This is a great pity for me because I own Pyramix 6.x and want to use it with my high end clients but simply can't because the workflow is just too slow for music mixing in comparison to every other DAW on the market. In addition, this obviously directly deters me from investing any further in my Pyramix rig which is again a pity because Pyramix has many great features and a superb sonic characteristic that takes 'in the box' mixing to a new level in currently available DAW's.
Win us back or loose us - your choice Merging!

Hi,

As mentioned above it is in our plans to improve such workflow.

We sure would like to win you back, can you identify yourself so we can talk
Are you using MassCore of Mykerinos mode?

Best Regards,
Ricardo
(p.s. To all: we're still awaiting Project examples for the Mixer rebuild slowdown regression)

Merging Technologies

[J.Wajer]

I think it's actually *worse* in the latest release version and completely agree with the 'vibekill' comments...

There is definately a different (tad bit slower) feel from an Editors POV with the 6.2.4 SP1 build 7777 compared to the 6.1 family. Also there seems to be just a tad bit more CPU load.

I do however not agree on the Mixer rebuild time. Mixer rebuilds have always been "slow". But after the rebuild we have zero (0!!) samples latency on the entire system. This is unprecedented and has not been accomplished by any other DAW. All others I have tested end up with 32-256 or even worse samples latencies. If you take for example Protools, Cubase or Logic, rebuilding the mixer is indeed much faster, but latency-compensation comes either in big chunks (small, medium or large buffers) or is not compensated at all. These DAWS always have latencies, no matter how hard you try....very frustrating.

PMX recalcs the latencies-to-the-sample! after each mod to the mixer......and I am very happy it does so.


And a tip: if you want to add multiple plugins to the mixer, go to the Mix!er/configure page and add, move, delete to your hearts content. When you are done, go back to the Mixer and it will only rebuild itself once.

[Graemme]

And a tip: if you want to add multiple plugins to the mixer, go to the Mix!er/configure page and add, move, delete to your hearts content. When you are done, go back to the Mixer and it will only rebuild itself once.

While mildly helpful in some cases, for day to day use, this doesn't cut it. Having to rebuild the mixer everytime that I need to add a plug-in is getting really tiresome. Clients and projects do not follow a neat and tidy logic that allows a single trip to the mixer config page.

Now, if by some miracle, I could apply VST plug-ins to clips, then I wouldn't need to rebuild the mixer...

Graemme

[Paulo M]

for example Protools, Cubase or Logic, rebuilding the mixer is indeed much faster, but latency-compensation comes either in big chunks (small, medium or large buffers) or is not compensated at all. These DAWS always have latencies, no matter how hard you try....very frustrating.

Indeed, the people here working with those DAW´s always get remarks from musicians regarding latencies. When using Pyramix, nobody even remembers that word However I agree with Graemme that if mixer rebuild times could be faster, in particular at high sampling rates could be really good.

Now, if by some miracle, I could apply VST plug-ins to clips, then I wouldn't need to rebuild the mixer...

Now you´re talking... version 8 maybe?

[Bernhard Guettler]

...
PS: On a related note (correct me if I'm missing a new modifier key or something). It used to be that if you dragged a mixer snapshot from a library onto a mixer it would simply restore the settings (ie fader/plugin/pan etc... positions/levels/setting) but not rebuild the mixer in it's entirety. If you had different plugins/channels etc... you could ctrl drag the snapshot which would then rebuild the mixer completely. It seems that now no matter what you do the mixer is rebuilt - which is frustrating as I really like being able to quickly compare different overall balances on the fly during playback. (note this change was a while ago - I forget at which point).

I agree that is a big loss. IIRC it went with V6.
We often did rough live mixes for live productions that way, during recording you could drop a snapshot on the mixer and voila...
Very missed and needed feature. Keeping V5 workstations just for that reason is no elegant solution...
Cheers
B.