Hello,
Using Pyramix 5.1 (not SP1 yet...)
We have currently 2 strange problems.
The first is Video related:
We have an avi DV pal file (24fps) running along in DS video player.
We noticed that when positionning the cursor in the pyramix project, the frame change was not always happening at the right place.
that is: project sample rate is 48000Hz, so at 24 fps, each frame should last 2000 samples. But it seems some of them are smaller by one sample or so, which slowly put the picture out of sync... (not a big deal, we have a quarter of frame, around 500 samples, for a 20 mn video file).
Is it normal?
The other problem is that the timecode display counter (either the transport one, or the one of the cursor position window), gives a strange reading...
For instance: if you type in the cursor poistion: 01:00:00:01, the cursor will land at 01:00:00:01.
then you move your cursor left by a small amount (much less than a frame of course), so the cursor is back into the preceding frame: 01:00:00:00, but the Timecode display still shows 01:00:00:01..?
it seems there is some kind of a strange offset here, why?
Has anyone seen this?
Best regards,
Laurent.
Video and timeline problem
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The Merging Technologies team cannot be held responsible for support queries logged on the public forums. If a support query is logged here and only here, it may not be found and dealt with by the appropriate team.
To ensure that your support issue or bug report is dealt with properly and in good time, please use the link to the tech support request form page on the Merging website.
Make sure to let us know what version you are using when you send your mail. THANKS!
-
Pierre-André Aebischer
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 19:55
Hello Pierre-André,
Well, to me the problem seems like a bug.
I checked on another pyramix, ang found the same 2 issues:
1 sample of offset for the change of TC timeline, and video frame in 24 fps projects of a lenght different than 2000 samples...
Let me know if you can confirm...
Best regards,
Laurent.
Well, to me the problem seems like a bug.
I checked on another pyramix, ang found the same 2 issues:
1 sample of offset for the change of TC timeline, and video frame in 24 fps projects of a lenght different than 2000 samples...
Let me know if you can confirm...
Best regards,
Laurent.
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Ricardo Ryan
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:19
- Location: Switzerland
Hi Laurent,
We do not see the sample rounding problem that you are mentioning. If we take a project that's 24fps/48kHz and display scaling using alternate TC Scale, in Timecode Frame and Sample view, both are matching making it 2000 samples from frame to frame although the project. What you see could occur if the project is at 23.98fps but not at 24fps, did you use the "FILM 24" preset?
Also make sure you navigate from frame to frame once having typed the frame number in the Pyramix TC frame scale field box.
If you still see a problem, send us your project, tell us about your settings and let us know at which TC you see a problem.
As for the cursor position problem, this is simply a normal behaving since you can work in subframe, if you open Virtual Transport you will notice that we have a 1/100 of frame (subframe) scaling, meaning that if your cursor is at 01:00:00:01 and you move the cursor backwards by a small amount it will only be updated in a 1/100 of frame scaling.
i.e. if you look at Virtual Transport TC indicator only once the cursor is reaching 01:00:00:00.99 will it post 01:00:00:00 in Pyramix TC frame scale, so no offset problem there.
Regards,
Ricardo
Merging Technologies.
We do not see the sample rounding problem that you are mentioning. If we take a project that's 24fps/48kHz and display scaling using alternate TC Scale, in Timecode Frame and Sample view, both are matching making it 2000 samples from frame to frame although the project. What you see could occur if the project is at 23.98fps but not at 24fps, did you use the "FILM 24" preset?
Also make sure you navigate from frame to frame once having typed the frame number in the Pyramix TC frame scale field box.
If you still see a problem, send us your project, tell us about your settings and let us know at which TC you see a problem.
As for the cursor position problem, this is simply a normal behaving since you can work in subframe, if you open Virtual Transport you will notice that we have a 1/100 of frame (subframe) scaling, meaning that if your cursor is at 01:00:00:01 and you move the cursor backwards by a small amount it will only be updated in a 1/100 of frame scaling.
i.e. if you look at Virtual Transport TC indicator only once the cursor is reaching 01:00:00:00.99 will it post 01:00:00:00 in Pyramix TC frame scale, so no offset problem there.
Regards,
Ricardo
Merging Technologies.
Hello Ricardo,
Thanks a lot for your answer.
I'm not sure I explained well the issue, or to understand correctly your answer.
About the lenght of frame, I was speaking of actual video frame:
I have an .avi or .mov file, (codec DV Pal), at 24 fps.
When going from frame to frame on the pyramix timeline, I noticed that I
don't always have a frame change on my video display, so that I needed to go a little further than the 2000 sample lenght of one frame to see actually the video frame change on the video monitor (all that is while editing of course, not while playback...).
Time code preset is 24 fps, Video is Pal, inside Ds vidoe player it's 24 fps.
The problem is that the displayed frame on stop are sometimes wrong, and when looking, it is very clear that the change of video frame does not occurs each 2000 sample, but a slightly different number...
About the second issue:
It is not related to VT at all. Take pyramix alone.
Type in the cursor timecode box: 01:00:00:00
go back 1 sample: there is still 01:00:00:00 displayed...
A boundary is a boundary: the boundary between 00:59:59:23 and 01:00:00:00 should be precise down to the sample, no?
Best regards,
Laurent.
Thanks a lot for your answer.
I'm not sure I explained well the issue, or to understand correctly your answer.
About the lenght of frame, I was speaking of actual video frame:
I have an .avi or .mov file, (codec DV Pal), at 24 fps.
When going from frame to frame on the pyramix timeline, I noticed that I
don't always have a frame change on my video display, so that I needed to go a little further than the 2000 sample lenght of one frame to see actually the video frame change on the video monitor (all that is while editing of course, not while playback...).
Time code preset is 24 fps, Video is Pal, inside Ds vidoe player it's 24 fps.
The problem is that the displayed frame on stop are sometimes wrong, and when looking, it is very clear that the change of video frame does not occurs each 2000 sample, but a slightly different number...
About the second issue:
It is not related to VT at all. Take pyramix alone.
Type in the cursor timecode box: 01:00:00:00
go back 1 sample: there is still 01:00:00:00 displayed...
A boundary is a boundary: the boundary between 00:59:59:23 and 01:00:00:00 should be precise down to the sample, no?
Best regards,
Laurent.
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Ricardo Ryan
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:19
- Location: Switzerland
Hi Laurent,
Thanks for giving us clear explanations to your problems.
This is a normal behaving on our side, there should be a constant 1,5 sample rounding value at 24fps. It is only reflected on the TC frame display scale, look through out your clip (it is due to a compromise for NTSC reasons, ask Dominique for more on this). Since it's only reflected on the TC scale display we can guarantee that we do not drift.
Yes, we confirm a problem in this case in 24fps and in NTSC (not in PAL). Bug id is now MT001390, we'll see what can be done.
Regards,
Ricardo
Merging Technologies
Thanks for giving us clear explanations to your problems.
lgabiot wrote:When going from frame to frame on the pyramix timeline, I noticed that I
don't always have a frame change on my video display, so that I needed to go a little further than the 2000 sample length of one frame to see actually the video frame change on the video monitor (all that is while editing of course, not while playback...).
Time code preset is 24 fps, Video is Pal, inside Ds video player it's 24 fps.
This is a normal behaving on our side, there should be a constant 1,5 sample rounding value at 24fps. It is only reflected on the TC frame display scale, look through out your clip (it is due to a compromise for NTSC reasons, ask Dominique for more on this). Since it's only reflected on the TC scale display we can guarantee that we do not drift.
It is not related to VT at all. Take pyramix alone.
Type in the cursor Timecode box: 01:00:00:00
go back 1 sample: there is still 01:00:00:00 displayed...
A boundary is a boundary: the boundary between 00:59:59:23 and 01:00:00:00 should be precise down to the sample, no?
Yes, we confirm a problem in this case in 24fps and in NTSC (not in PAL). Bug id is now MT001390, we'll see what can be done.
Regards,
Ricardo
Merging Technologies
Hello everybody,
I have been able to reproduce exactly what Laurent is talking about (well h helped me actually!) on my system, with QT player, at 24fps, and i'm afraid the sample rouding i saw (we saw) was more like 15 samples!
Or was it 14?
Laurent do you remember better than me?
About the 1sample offset on the TC display i'll have to doublecheck but i think it was in PAL...?
Cheers
M.
I have been able to reproduce exactly what Laurent is talking about (well h helped me actually!) on my system, with QT player, at 24fps, and i'm afraid the sample rouding i saw (we saw) was more like 15 samples!
Or was it 14?
Laurent do you remember better than me?
About the 1sample offset on the TC display i'll have to doublecheck but i think it was in PAL...?
Cheers
M.
-
Ricardo Ryan
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:19
- Location: Switzerland
I have been able to reproduce exactly what Laurent is talking about (well h helped me actually!) on my system, with QT player, at 24fps, and i'm afraid the sample rouding i saw (we saw) was more like 15 samples!
Let me clarify, bug MT001390, is not related to the rounding, the problem is that the video frame (i.e. QT player/DS Player) is not update according to the precise location of the Pyramix cursor in the Timeline TC Frame scale.
As Laurent said "the frame change was not always happening at the right place." This may differ depending of the resolution Film24, Ntsc (Pal also after re-testing).
I'm curious about your 15 samples offset you see, wouldn't it be more 15/100 of frame displayed in Virtual Timecode scale?
About the 1sample offset on the TC display i'll have to doublecheck but i think it was in PAL...?
Yes rounding in Pal could be somewhere around 1,4 samples (depends of the project sampling rate), once again only reflected on the TC Frame scale, playback/project will not drift.
Regards,
Ricardo
Merging Technologies
Last edited by Ricardo Ryan on Tue Mar 13, 2007 14:45, edited 1 time in total.