DDP?

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Graemme
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Re: DDP?

Postby Graemme » Fri Feb 13, 2009 02:01

The file size issue could possibly be attributed to the extra information held in the file header of the .pmi file - audio is only a part of this file, whereas, the imported CD stuff is pretty well all audio.


The imported CD-image also contains the CD-Text, ISRC, PQ data and UPC/EAN info and only differs from the PMI file in terms of structure. The only way to compare the file sizes between image and re-loaded CD is when you have everything working properly...and use a 'known to be good' CD-writer...


In order to do a true null test, you have to carefully line up the files. Look for some distinctive waveform and zoom in a lot, and then drag one file or the other until they are perfectly lined up.


Transients are best. If you are even one sample out it won't null. Try using the 'Nudge' functions to move the selected clip in one sample increments. My apologies if your CD consists of soft gongs for an hour...


You do know that you have to flip the polarity of the Left and the Right clips for one group or the other, by right clicking on the clip and selecting Properties and then finding the field to do the inversion. If you only do this once, even though you might have both left and right selected, it will only affect the clip you clicked on, so you have to do it for both


Wrong. There is a hierarchy in the 'Properties' window. 'Media' is the lowest level and is read-only. 'Clip' is next and will only affect the last clip you clicked on. Finally, there's 'Selection' where what ever selection you have made in the timeline will be affected by the choices made in the 'Selection' area of the 'Properties' window.

As for the time discrepancy, Audio CD is remarkably imprecise, as it was never designed to be accurate below the CD frame level. You may very well find that there is extra material at the beginning or end of your imported CD data, which is why you have to visually line up the two sources.


This is just as much a function of having a crap CD-writer/reader. Can I get a 'Plextor!' from the congregation??!!

For the most part, the extra material on the CD is from the lead in or lead out, and is not audible to the listener, so it's not really a huge worry.


Again, poor extraction from a crap CD-drive can lead to missing ISRC, etc. and/or CD markers in the wrong places (especially track end markers, if they make it at all...) Part of a null test is checking the PQ markers, etc., to see if they 'null' or not.


What is at issue is whether your program material nulls out perfectly or not.


Of course that's part of it, but marker placement and CD-Text, etc. are very important as well.

If you do all this and find you have a bunch of errors, then you need to start looking at your burner and the media you're using. Some burners are better than others, and usually every burner performs best with certain brands/kinds of media, as well as at certain burn speeds. It's no longer accurate to say that the best way to burn is to use slower burning speeds - it's all determined by the individual burner and media.


From (you guessed it) Plextor tech support a couple of years ago: "CD Writers are 'tuned' for half of the max. burn speed of that particular writer." My own experience is that 16x is the max. write speed that *all* of my CD-players will reliably work with. That's from no-name junk to EMM Labs quality. Your mileage may vary.

Media? Taiyo Yuden. It's a good combo with <cough> Plextor drives.

You could download the LE version of PlexTools Pro that is available at the Plextor site, which can help you examine disks for errors,


Not without a compatible Plextor drive you won't. It's the 'C1/C2' tests that you really want and that's where you'll need an appropriate burner with that brand name I'm almost sick of mentioning.

Now there are the Lite-On drives with their 'K-Probe' software that also apparently reports C1/C2 errors. I say 'apparently,' because I've never gotten it to work properly. Also, the Lite-On drives are crap in my not so humble opinion. I went through three of them before I smartened up.

I spend enough of my time dealing with the idiosyncracies of Pyramix to also want to scratch my head about flakey CD-writing/reading.

Best,

Graemme
Graemme Brown
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tas
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Re: DDP?

Postby tas » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:23

thanks once more on this esssential info.

regarding polarity inversion, all I did is flip it on the mixer (or is that wrong?). I don't quite understand why to flip the clip channels. And as for alignment I just placed both clips at the start. By the way, in case you haven't noticed by updates on the previous post, it eventually worked.

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Graemme
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Re: DDP?

Postby Graemme » Fri Feb 13, 2009 13:10

It's no problem to use the mixer exactly as you did - it all depends on how you use Pyramix (or what you used before Pyramix). I'm glad it eventually worked out for you.

Hey, what part of the world are you in? I'm asking because I think that, as a new user, you would greatly benefit from an hour or two's worth of tutoring with a Pyramix veteran. It can really help!

Best regards,

Graemme


tas wrote:thanks once more on this esssential info.

regarding polarity inversion, all I did is flip it on the mixer (or is that wrong?). I don't quite understand why to flip the clip channels. And as for alignment I just placed both clips at the start. By the way, in case you haven't noticed by updates on the previous post, it eventually worked.
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
1460 Wild Rose Drive
Gabriola Island, BC
Canada V0R 1X5
+1.604.874.9096

"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"

tas
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 15:41

Re: DDP?

Postby tas » Fri Feb 13, 2009 15:42

I am miles away, in Greece to be specific. You 're offer is very kind though. Some Pyramix (and mastering) tutoring combined with some location classical recording hands-on would make a trip to Canada way worth the while. I've been over once already actually. Toronto and Ottawa along some smaller towns. I 've heard a lot about Vancouver though...

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fl
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Re: DDP?

Postby fl » Fri Feb 13, 2009 16:21

tas wrote:I am miles away, in Greece to be specific.


Well, being in Europe, you could possibly pick up a Plextor Premium 2 CD burner a little more easily than we can here in North America...
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
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diverse
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Re: DDP?

Postby diverse » Fri Feb 13, 2009 16:58

On the subject of CDR's, you can still get hold of the premium plextor drive if you look around.

We have a Clover CD Verifier and i've had years of experience checking discs for errors.

Always use discs from Taiyo Yuden for masters, they do make discs for others but most reputable companies will state who makes the discs. The difference in BLER rates from TY discs compared to other branded discs is staggering. Average BLER on TY discs I am getting is less than 1% on average with a peak of 5. Using Verbatim or other such higher end branded discs get average BLER rates of between 10 & 20 with high peaks (but all grade A) at the same speed and same drive!

I've also found the last set of good Plextors perform (750/755's) slightly better if not burned at the slowest speed but at 1/2 the maximum speed.

tas
Posts: 314
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Re: DDP?

Postby tas » Fri Feb 13, 2009 17:22

fl wrote:Well, being in Europe, you could possibly pick up a Plextor Premium 2 CD burner a little more easily than we can here in North America...


If I can help you in getting one I'd gladly do so.

Larry Elliott
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Re: DDP?

Postby Larry Elliott » Fri Feb 13, 2009 22:18

tas wrote:I am miles away, in Greece to be specific. You 're offer is very kind though. Some Pyramix (and mastering) tutoring combined with some location classical recording hands-on would make a trip to Canada way worth the while. I've been over once already actually. Toronto and Ottawa along some smaller towns. I 've heard a lot about Vancouver though...


TAS
Look at the Certified Training section on the Merging Site. http://www.trainingcap.com/

Maurice is an excellent tutor and he is willing to customise the topics covered to suit.

I came from New Zealand to Geneva for a 3 day session and it was money well spent.

Larry

tas
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 15:41

Re: DDP?

Postby tas » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:43

thanks for the info Larry