Crossfade clicks in DSD projects

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green-qqq
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 16:48

Crossfade clicks in DSD projects

Postby green-qqq » Sun Mar 17, 2019 22:21

I have Pyramix Native and I am getting clicks in the start (and stop) of crossfades in dsd projects. The clicks disappears when i render the dsd.
Is this normal in Pyramix Native, as the files are converted to DXD in the crossfade area? Or does it have something to do with my sound setup etc.?

Best,
Martin

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Graemme
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Re: Crossfade clicks in DSD projects

Postby Graemme » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:43

In a DSD project, Pyramix is only working in DSD-mode, so there will be clicks at edit points because there is no *real-time* conversion to DXD. As you correctly note, the clicks go away when the file has been DSD-rendered. If you want to avoid this behaviour, convert your project to DXD, do your edits and then convert the project back to DSD and DSD-render the output files. There is a command in the settings to invoke the 'Ask for DSD / DXD project conversion on opening' and that may be turned off by default these days (I don't remember...)

Graemme
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green-qqq
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 16:48

Re: Crossfade clicks in DSD projects

Postby green-qqq » Wed Mar 27, 2019 13:52

Thanks for the answer!
I only use the "pure" dsd in simple project with only a few crossfades, and then it's okey with the clicks as a long as I get as little conversion as possible. As I understand, only the crossfades area is converted to DXD, the rest is untouched.

Is there a reason why DSD projects are not "real-time" converted to DXD, and then remain "clean" in the rendering?

Best Martin

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draudio2u
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Re: Crossfade clicks in DSD projects

Postby draudio2u » Tue Apr 09, 2019 00:55

Hello,
If I am not mistaken, the only system that was able to do the math while remaining true DSD was the Sonoma system. Before Pyramix was stable with DXD (we started with PMX4), we were running Sonoma for all DSD / SACD title requests. No other system can do the math necessary for any sort of processing in DSD. This is why merging went with "DXD" which is basically ultra resolution PCM - which can be processed (ie. edits, EQ, fades etc...). No that Sonoma has not upgraded beyond XP, Merging has the market - and we live with DXD.
Cheers.

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Graemme
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Re: Crossfade clicks in DSD projects

Postby Graemme » Wed May 08, 2019 07:01

Having used both Pyramix and Sonoma systems, I will say that things are never so simple. There is a lot going on 'under the hood' of the Sonoma system with respect to noise-shaping, 8-bit to 1-bit conversions, DSP-sidechain, etc. and at the end of the day, both systems have advantages and disadvantages. The early DSD to DXD decimation algorithms in Pyramix weren't exactly great. They improved dramatically and along with DSD-modulator refinements and options, helped Pyramix to sound as good as it does today.

There was a long, protracted 'battle' between adherents of both systems; It was ugly and childish, to say the least.

Both systems could have had their lunch eaten by Korg's DSD multi-channel recorder/editor/mixer product but it never got past the prototype stage...

Graemme
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
1460 Wild Rose Drive
Gabriola Island, BC
Canada V0R 1X5
+1.604.874.9096

"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"

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Graemme
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Re: Crossfade clicks in DSD projects

Postby Graemme » Wed May 08, 2019 07:15

Yes, you can use the 'DSD-Rendering' command to render the DSD audio in your timeline, even while you are in a DXD project.

You are correct: DSD-Rendering copies source DSD material into the output file and only converts that which is part of a fade (in/out/x) or a clip where a level/polarity change has been invoked. No mixer-related processing is possible.

Graemme


green-qqq wrote:Thanks for the answer!
I only use the "pure" dsd in simple project with only a few crossfades, and then it's okey with the clicks as a long as I get as little conversion as possible. As I understand, only the crossfades area is converted to DXD, the rest is untouched.

Is there a reason why DSD projects are not "real-time" converted to DXD, and then remain "clean" in the rendering?

Best Martin
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
1460 Wild Rose Drive
Gabriola Island, BC
Canada V0R 1X5
+1.604.874.9096

"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"