DSD Render glitches

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crna59
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DSD Render glitches

Postby crna59 » Fri May 02, 2014 06:34

Has anyone noticed that there are ticks/pops at the beginning and end of the file that you split and DSD Render? I'm having problems with this on both my Masscore and Native systems.

Win 7 Pro Masscore 9
Win 7 Pro Native 8.1

You can fully zoom in and the waveform does not line up between tracks and you get these ticks/pops. Is there a way to put a millisecond fade at the beginning/end of the files without having to do it by hand? I thought there was a check box at one time that would do this?
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
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allemano bernard@neuf.fr
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby allemano bernard@neuf.fr » Fri May 02, 2014 08:15

Hi,

In all setting /application/play back/record : auto deglitching

Also, in all settings/ etc... editing : auto crossfade by default

Also, in all settings/ etc.../record : auto crossfade

Best,

Bernard
pyramix 10 Native; windows 10 64 Bits; Asrock Z 270 PRO 4; intel core i7 7700 4.20 GHz; 16G DDR4;
1 SSD M2 Nvme for system; 1 SSD M2 Nvme for medias; 1 WD Caviar Black 1T. for backups.

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Graemme
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby Graemme » Sat May 03, 2014 00:14

This doesn't work in DSD mode... only DXD / PCM.

allemano bernard@neuf.fr wrote:Hi,

In all setting /application/play back/record : auto deglitching

Also, in all settings/ etc... editing : auto crossfade by default

Also, in all settings/ etc.../record : auto crossfade

Best,

Bernard
Graemme Brown
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Graemme
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby Graemme » Sat May 03, 2014 00:20

There never has been any automatic fade creation for rendering in DSD (or PCM, for that matter). It's still a manual labour kinda' thing.

Also, *any* file played back in DSD mode will 'click' at the beginning /end of the file as well as at the start and stop of playback. DSD mode is a raw recorder / player with none of the conveniences of the DXD / PCM modes.

Graemme

crna59 wrote:Has anyone noticed that there are ticks/pops at the beginning and end of the file that you split and DSD Render? I'm having problems with this on both my Masscore and Native systems.

Win 7 Pro Masscore 9
Win 7 Pro Native 8.1

You can fully zoom in and the waveform does not line up between tracks and you get these ticks/pops. Is there a way to put a millisecond fade at the beginning/end of the files without having to do it by hand? I thought there was a check box at one time that would do this?
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
1460 Wild Rose Drive
Gabriola Island, BC
Canada V0R 1X5
+1.604.874.9096

"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"

crna59
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Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby crna59 » Sat May 03, 2014 04:24

This is happening if I'm in DSD or DXD mode.

I transfer a 33 minute tape, just split tracks and DSD Render out and still get ticks/pops at the beginning/end of each track.

Driving me f*in crazy.... the labels don't like it either!!
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
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Seattle, WA

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Graemme
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby Graemme » Sat May 03, 2014 20:33

Exact Pyramix version # ?

Maybe I wasn't clear: I assume that you are creating small fades at the in and out points of your split DSD clips before rendering them? Those fades should be at least 1mS long.
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
1460 Wild Rose Drive
Gabriola Island, BC
Canada V0R 1X5
+1.604.874.9096

"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"

crna59
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby crna59 » Sat May 03, 2014 20:49

Pyramix Masscore 9.06, build 23165

and Pyramix Native 8.1.10, build 21289

I don't want to have to go in and create the fades, I want them to automatically be done for me so I won't have these clicks/pops!
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
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Seattle, WA

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Graemme
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby Graemme » Sat May 03, 2014 21:06

Well, they aren't and haven't ever been...This has been requested for years...Perhaps now that rendered DSD files have become a delivery format, this feature might become reality. But for now, it ain't.

There are newer versions of PMX 8.1 (8.1.12 hot fix build 21893) but anything newer than b21893 seems to make DSD-Render problems worse.



crna59 wrote:Pyramix Masscore 9.06, build 23165

and Pyramix Native 8.1.10, build 21289

I don't want to have to go in and create the fades, I want them to automatically be done for me so I won't have these clicks/pops!
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
1460 Wild Rose Drive
Gabriola Island, BC
Canada V0R 1X5
+1.604.874.9096

"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"

crna59
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 00:11
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby crna59 » Mon May 05, 2014 20:21

Thanks Graemme.....
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

tailspn
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby tailspn » Tue May 06, 2014 04:39

Blowing up the time and amplitude scale on the timeline (4X amplitude, ~10 milliseconds/major div time scale), and monitoring the the sound as you search around for a low/no click start allows you to pretty easily find a silent start. The problem arises, besides it taking ten seconds to a half a minute or so to find a "zero offset" crossing, is that the tail of the preceding "new" end is packed with zeros for several bit times, meaning that new end point is not at the zero crossing. Bottom line, you can easily most always make a silent start, but the end of file will click.

My experience (having done several thousands of these slices) is you can make it much quieter than a random slice point (like a DSD EM track marker). But even doing a DXD fade in and out still leaves a click, once DSD rendered.

crna59
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby crna59 » Wed May 07, 2014 06:31

tailspn wrote:Blowing up the time and amplitude scale on the timeline (4X amplitude, ~10 milliseconds/major div time scale), and monitoring the the sound as you search around for a low/no click start allows you to pretty easily find a silent start. The problem arises, besides it taking ten seconds to a half a minute or so to find a "zero offset" crossing, is that the tail of the preceding "new" end is packed with zeros for several bit times, meaning that new end point is not at the zero crossing. Bottom line, you can easily most always make a silent start, but the end of file will click.

My experience (having done several thousands of these slices) is you can make it much quieter than a random slice point (like a DSD EM track marker). But even doing a DXD fade in and out still leaves a click, once DSD rendered.


I've been doing several thousand of these as well and every time the label comes back saying "in/out point has glitch"... I even tried the DXD thing and still get them. I don't have time for a normal Render. Just takes too damn long when you have a dozen or so albums to do.

Don't get me started on having more than one project on the time line when you do a DSD render. This is a known bug....
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

tailspn
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby tailspn » Wed May 07, 2014 18:49

Yep, that's my experience also. The most notable and consistent click occurs in the start and stop from dead silence/no signal. There's no quiet point. In inter-track hall ambiance you can find and create a silent DSD start point. The end of the file just will not be click-less, because the actual content stop point gets shifted earlier by several bit times by the Slice Command, back into click noise territory.

Doing a DXD fade is also worthless, giving you the in/out click of DSD no signal before and after the fade. The only complete solution is converting the entire file to DXD, and inserting fades, which of course, is no solution at all. If you can take the time to find silent slice points, you can usually create satisfactory sliced files. At least get the clicks down to the tick level.

Additionally, if you record your transfers in 256fs, instead of 64fs, there's virtually no click on in/outs.

crna59
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby crna59 » Thu May 08, 2014 06:48

Thanks Tom... to make things quicker, I've had to set one of my zoom settings all the way in so I can see the zero crossing. I'll do a few albums to see how it works. Little slower than I had planned, especially when track markers are in the middle of a crescendo!
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

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draudio2u
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Re: DSD Render glitches

Postby draudio2u » Tue Sep 27, 2016 19:56

Hello,
Anyone know if this "start/Stop" tic issue has been solved? I always deliver full DSD Edit Masters but now have requests for DSD Tracks for internet download. Can't seem to get around the start/stop tic.

Running 9.1.8 build 26726 in Native (Mytek converters).

Thanks