MADI- cost of admission

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Perfect Record
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MADI- cost of admission

Postby Perfect Record » Mon Feb 01, 2010 23:33

MADI would be a great tool for my business, but at over $3000 for just a daughter card, it's out of the running for me.

SSL makes an $800 PCI MADI card, which means that I could equip a complete 56 channel location recording package for less than the cost of the Pyramix MADI daughter card alone. I really want to use Pyramix on location for the large projects, but thinking I'll need to look at another route. You can buy a SSL bundle of 24 channel A-D/D-A plus PCI MADI interface card for about $2700.

Any chance the pricing of this card could be reexamined?

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Graemme
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Graemme » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:01

Or, buy a Pyramix Native system and run it with the SSL MADI solution...

...just sayin'

Graemme
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Mario
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Mario » Wed Feb 03, 2010 16:30

Be aware that the SSL MADI card (a cool product by the way) doesn´t have direc monitoring. If you are working on classic music, this is something you don´t need, otherwise you will have some latency problems.

Anyway, if you want to go one step higher, you can chose the MX4, two MADI ports with a mixer included, with this you will have monitoring and any mixing duties with no latency, still a solution for the native pyramix

regards

Perfect Record
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Perfect Record » Thu Feb 04, 2010 20:44

Graemme wrote:Or, buy a Pyramix Native system and run it with the SSL MADI solution...
...just sayin'
Graemme


Seriously considered that, but the big multi channel projects also require a lot of busy, live mixing, because I need to come away with a pretty solid ref mix so that I'm sure I have the show covered. I think I'd need something more in the Masscore realm to do the kind of live mixing I'm talking about. Also weighing apples and oranges, (pun intended) I might want to look at a recording app that supports the Euphonix fader packs.

In this economy, I'm having to budget very carefully.

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Graemme
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Graemme » Fri Feb 05, 2010 01:04

Hi Preston,

I've seen some impressive mixes done with PMX Native systems. It may be worth getting the opinions of Tim Martyn and Mark Willsher (phaseboy). as they're both using large Native setups with good results. As long as the CPU is up to the task, I think you'll pleasantly surprised.

Have you used the Euphonix fader packs? They aren't everyone's cup of tea (inc. me) but some people like them just fine. At our studio, we were split 3-1 against the ergonomics. the '1' uses Logic and liked the integration of Logic with the Euphonic Artist-MC.

Best,

Graemme
Graemme Brown
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tim
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby tim » Fri Feb 05, 2010 17:24

I'll let Mark W. comment on the "busy live mixing" part, we really only use the Native systems for tracking, & use Yamaha DM1000/2000 for doing the live mixes. But we've certainly had rock-solid success with the Native laptops and RME MadiFaces for recording very high track counts.

Tim Martyn
Tim Martyn
Phoenix Audio
Glen Rock, NJ
www.phoenixaudiollc.com

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Jonathon Stevens
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Jonathon Stevens » Fri Feb 05, 2010 20:23

We've had good results with Native here, working on 40-50 tracks on a core 2 duo laptop with a USB benchmark for headphones and a mackie baby hui.
Jonathon Stevens
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phaseboy
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby phaseboy » Sun Feb 07, 2010 06:04

Well it really depends what busy means to you - in general I would say that I think most people would be surprised at how much mixing power a native system has. If you could offer some specifics as to what you're intending it would help. But I could say for example if you're recording 48 channels via madi at 48kHz and doing fader rides with automation you'll have more than enough power. The caveat really is the latency - native won't work if for example you're working with picture and need to be giving the cameras a live mix, or if you need to do overdubs etc... (I'm ignoring ways you can overdub with native as it can be a pain, and in an intense session can easily look very amateur).

"bigger" examples of types of work where I have done automated mixing exclusively in native with version 6.0sp2, and 6.1mr2:

64 channel 48/24 orchestral mixes with 5.1 and stereo busses, more than a dozen vst eq's, vst convolution reverb - (no problems whatsoever).
32 channel 96/24 rock bands stereo mix, more than two dozen vst eq's and compressors, 2 X vst multitap delay, 2 X vst convolution reverbs, random miscellaneous vs3 merging plugins - (this was pushing it to the limit - I had to remove my buss compressor (ozone) in order to avoid artifacts during playback - still with that removed it worked reliably).

Oh and this is on a laptop playing back from a single sata laptop drive in a usb2.0 bus-powered enclosure - granted it's a really good laptop, but it's also two years old now.


FWIW - I expect a lot from gear and won't go into a session live or otherwise if I have any doubts as to it's reliability for the given situation but even then I still never go into a live gig without two recorders (and in fact I almost never record in the studio without two unless it's overdubs).
Mark S. Willsher
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Perfect Record
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Perfect Record » Fri Feb 12, 2010 22:24

I guess what I'm getting at is either live concerts for radio, or opera, where you need a very complicated live ref mix at the end of the day.

When I sketch out my ideal large scale location package, I'd really like to have a masscore rig at the center. I realize that I don't have a good handle on what's possible with a native system though.

To come around to where I started this thread, there are two little hardware bits for Pyramix that are a little costly compared to what's available for other systems. Those are fader systems and MADI cards. And yes, $3,000 does seem a little high for an I/O card.

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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby tim » Sat Feb 13, 2010 03:50

If you're doing live mixes of operas for radio, I'd really suggest you look into using an outboard digital mixer with a MADI interface (e.g. Yamaha DM1K or 2k), then track to a pair of Pyramix native laptops with a MADI interface on each (e.g. RME MadiFace). We've used such a rig for hundreds of events like this, with excellent reliability and ease of use. I can't see taking a MassCore system out into the field and then trying to mix an opera with a mouse. The MadiFaces are less than half the cost of a MADI/Mykerinos card.

Just my two cents...

Tim Martyn
Tim Martyn
Phoenix Audio
Glen Rock, NJ
www.phoenixaudiollc.com

Perfect Record
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Perfect Record » Sat Feb 13, 2010 09:25

tim wrote: I can't see taking a MassCore system out into the field and then trying to mix an opera with a mouse. The MadiFaces are less than half the cost of a MADI/Mykerinos card.

Just my two cents...

Tim Martyn


Tim,
Wouldn't dream of trying to mix an opera with a mouse. As I was saying earlier, in an ideal world, I'd use something like the Euphonix faders for the stage mics.

per
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby per » Sun Feb 28, 2010 15:21

Hi - a side question.

You guys mentioned the "Euphonix faders". Is this the Euphonics MC Mix? Does anyone have experience from connecting this to Pyramix? Works fine?

Thanks
Per
Sound Processing AB
Sweden

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Graemme
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby Graemme » Sun Feb 28, 2010 15:30

Hi Per,

Go over to the '3rd Party Controllers' sub-forum...some discussion (mostly positive!) about using the Euphonic MC-Artist controllers with Pyramix.

Best,

Graemme
Graemme Brown
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per
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby per » Sun Feb 28, 2010 16:22

Thanks!
Per
Sound Processing AB
Sweden

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huub
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Re: MADI- cost of admission

Postby huub » Thu Mar 04, 2010 03:14

Whilst I understand and respect the fact that merging has to have a workable buisiness model, and quality comes at a price,
The possibility now to use an Rme madi card or the new ssl dual madi card with native software, makes pyramix reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally expensive in comparison..
Like, really really expensive....
Like for the cost of 1 madi card plus X30, you can probably buy a dual madi native system with computer and all..
Huub lelieveld
Senior audio engineer
United outside broadcast
Euro Media Group
Hilversum, Netherlands


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