Error checks

The "Merging Cellar" is the place where you can share your tasting experiences and discuss everything from technique, artistic matters or even business practices, but not necessarily about Pyramix. Feel free to pick the brains of the talented Merging forum users. Enjoy.
Forum rules
The "Merging Cellar" is the place where you can share your tasting experiences and discuss everything from technique, artistic matters or even business practices, but not necessarily about Pyramix. Feel free to pick the brains of the talented Merging forum users. Enjoy.
User avatar
Paulo M
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 16:19
Location: Portugal

Error checks

Postby Paulo M » Fri Apr 01, 2011 17:44

Hi,

does somebody want to share their experiences regarding error checking on CD masters? I mean, which type of check tools are you using and the main things to check first on analysis reports. Also your favourite disc media, drives etc.

I´m using Lite-on and Plextor drives as recommended by Merging when I bought my systems. So far I never had a complain, but I´m sure that I can do more to check for possible errors other than listening to the PMCD.

Also, are you delivering DDP more than CD Audio to replication or the opposite? Is there anything in particular I should pay attention when doing DDP´s? Trying the Sonoris DDP here at the moment.

All user experience welcome. Usually I do post with Pyramix, but lately I´ve been asked to do some small mastering work, so I´m trying to learn all I can on these delivery issues.

Thanks
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

tim
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 05:10
Location: Glen Rock, New Jersey USA
Contact:

Re: Error checks

Postby tim » Sat Apr 02, 2011 01:09

Hi Paulo,

I submit DDPs whenever/wherever they are accepted, & use Nero to make & verify the master. I feel pretty certain that replications from DDPs always sound better than from CDRs.

Tim
Tim Martyn
Phoenix Audio
Glen Rock, NJ
www.phoenixaudiollc.com

Perfect Record
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 06:09
Location: St Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Re: Error checks

Postby Perfect Record » Tue Apr 05, 2011 19:05

I bought a used Plextor Premium drive online a couple years ago. It took some searching, but I found a copy of Plextools. It's a very good combination, but I'm worried about that plextor drive wearing out.

User avatar
Paulo M
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 16:19
Location: Portugal

Re: Error checks

Postby Paulo M » Tue Apr 05, 2011 19:12

I have a Plextor on a PC too, but Pyramix is on another PC with a Lite-on drive. I guess Plextools won´t work with other drives :roll:

So, I can always insert the CD from the Pyramix PC and analyse it on the other. Didn´t think about that yet.

Do you know any other analysing tools? Thanks
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

Perfect Record
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 06:09
Location: St Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Re: Error checks

Postby Perfect Record » Wed Apr 06, 2011 21:36

Paulo M wrote:I have a Plextor on a PC too, but Pyramix is on another PC with a Lite-on drive. I guess Plextools won´t work with other drives :roll:

So, I can always insert the CD from the Pyramix PC and analyse it on the other. Didn´t think about that yet.

Do you know any other analysing tools? Thanks


I analyze disks from any computer on my PC, even manufactured CD's.

There are a handful of tools, but they cost much more, and probably do more than we need as mastering engineers. Check for a used Plextor.

Professor
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 00:14
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contact:

Re: Error checks

Postby Professor » Thu Apr 14, 2011 16:40

I use CD Error Monitor http://www.wpnsystems.com/cdermon/cdermon.htm - but this is hardware...
Andrey Subbotin

User avatar
Paulo M
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 16:19
Location: Portugal

Re: Error checks

Postby Paulo M » Thu Apr 14, 2011 17:08

Hi Andrey,

thanks for sharing. Yes, it´s out of my reach but was interesting reading anyway. So, from the top 5 error checks (BLER etc) what´s the average error that you can allow to go through, or put it in another way, when do you know that the disc needs to go to the bin and burn another? Thanks
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

Professor
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 00:14
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contact:

Re: Error checks

Postby Professor » Thu Apr 14, 2011 19:09

In theory, BLER must be less than 220, but in practice on today's blanks it's 10-15 in peaks. BERL must be not more than 7, and zero E32. You can see red lines with possible maximum on graphics.
Andrey Subbotin

User avatar
Paulo M
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 16:19
Location: Portugal

Re: Error checks

Postby Paulo M » Thu Apr 14, 2011 19:18

Hi Andrey, thanks. I´ll have a look.
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

Perfect Record
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 06:09
Location: St Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Re: Error checks

Postby Perfect Record » Thu Apr 14, 2011 20:49

Using Tayo or Sony blanks, and a fairly cheap Pioneer writer, 99% of my masters come out with extremely low error rates and are suitable for sending to the plant. Always wonder what's up with that last 1% though?

User avatar
Paulo M
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 16:19
Location: Portugal

Re: Error checks

Postby Paulo M » Thu Apr 14, 2011 21:06

Using Tayo or Sony blanks, and a fairly cheap Pioneer writer, 99% of my masters come out with extremely low error rates and are suitable for sending to the plant. Always wonder what's up with that last 1% though?


At what speeds to you usually burn the discs? I use the Sony ones, Tayo is more dificult to find around here. But I´m always in doubt if the disks are optimised for a certain speed, lowering that can cause any increase in errors. Although I think that a lower speed will produce less vibration and less errors too. Usually I burn at 8x on the Sony discs. Do you think is too much? Or do you buy the x1 expensive discs?

Sorry for the maybe silly questions, but I come from a post background where were no discs, only videotapes and now file based delivery :)
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

Professor
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 00:14
Location: Moscow, Russia
Contact:

Re: Error checks

Postby Professor » Fri Apr 15, 2011 00:07

x8 - x16 is optimal for today's media. Lower speed give you more errors, because media not optimized for slow speed, High speed will give you more errors because CAV change to CLV.
some pictures
Image
Image

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_linear_velocity
Andrey Subbotin