Pyramix and iZotope RX3

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The "Merging Cellar" is the place where you can share your tasting experiences and discuss everything from technique, artistic matters or even business practices, but not necessarily about Pyramix. Feel free to pick the brains of the talented Merging forum users. Enjoy.

Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby charlienyc » Wed Nov 20, 2013 17:54

hi,
i've just upgraded to RX3, and was wondering what others' workflow is? ideally it would function as reNOVAtor does, rendering and popping open a window with Pyramix. i know RX will not work on PMF files, but we could still render to WAV or BWF. now i'm noticing it only works on mono and stereo files, so opening it up across a multitrack becomes complicated. how are you using it?
cheers,
-c
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby fl » Thu Nov 21, 2013 17:03

Yes, the limitation to two tracks in the standalone is an issue, but I prefer to use the standalone rather than the plug-in method, as I feel it gives me more control and less risk of a crash due to overextending system resources. I will then have to process things pair by pair, or mono file by mono file. Yes, it's a pain but the results are usually worth it. I usually record to interleaved pmf files,but then export separated WAVs for RX to use. That way I won't inadvertently process my original file. I prefer to do all noise reduction on complete takes before I start to edit, as I feel that changing conditions during sessions can result in an uneven result if I wait to process the edited mix. It takes longer, but I've found it frequently gives me more flexibility to edit with cleaned tracks.
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby fl » Thu Nov 21, 2013 20:49

As a consequence of this discussion I've been testing RX as a Render process from within Pyramix. Not promising. If you select more than two tracks, RX won't know what to do. Plus, if you select the Spectral Repair, you get a message that RX doesn't recognize the host (Pyramix), and as the process requires two way communication between it and the host, it just won't work. Same deal with "Learning" the noise profile for Manual Denoising - no way to tell it to look at any specific region for its noise profile.

Since those are the two tools I use most frequently, I think I'm going to stick with my "Render to mono or stereo WAV files (with no Effects Rack processing), and use RX in stand-alone mode" method:
1. Select the region which needs work on one or two tracks.
2. Render the region to 32 bit WAV files - WITH one or two second "Handles" (for flexibility with later crossfade adjustment).
3. Open the WAVs in RX, and do what must be done.
4. When completed, "Save" - do NOT "Save As" some other file name.
5. Before re-launching Pyramix, go to the folder with the RXified WAVs and delete the .pk2 files associated with them. This will force Pyramix to re-draw the waveforms when you...,
6. Relaunch Pyramix to see your newly fixed files in place in the timeline. If the waveform redraw doesn't happen automatically, right click on it and in the pop-up, select "Display > Generate Waveform". Adjust the crossfades as needed.

I wish I could take the credit for originating this method, but it all came from resident genius, Mark Willsher.
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby charlienyc » Thu Nov 21, 2013 21:24

thanks Frank. that's close to what i've been doing recently. one question- do you hide the original media files from Pyramix (ie move them to another unmounted folder) before restarting it?

i went through this earlier today, and made it work using the "reconform media" command. i didn't have a lot of faith in it actually, but it worked perfectly, using my de-noised media file instead of the original. i did hide the original file, though, and that made Pyramix think the media was missing entirely. that's why i ask whether you try hiding it or not.

cheers,
-c
2x MassCore v10.1.4 Win7/64 i5-3450
3x Horus w/3 AD8p, 6 AD8, 1 DA8, 2 DA8p
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby fl » Thu Nov 21, 2013 21:49

No, I don't hide stuff - especially if I'm only fixing a short portion of a longer file via the Render method - I'll still need the rest.

I will often create a new folder during the Render process, just to hold the files for RX - makes hunting for them a little easier. It shouldn't really matter whether you make a new folder or just keep everything in the main Project's Media Files folder, as long as you never ask Pyramix to save a file with the same name as one already existing at the destination, you'll be fine.

Using the Render method, I've never had to Reconform, so my experience with that function is, um, limited.
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby charlienyc » Fri Nov 22, 2013 00:12

sounds like you'll never need to, which is of course the cleaner way to work!
thanks for the advice, Frank.
cheers,
-c
2x MassCore v10.1.4 Win7/64 i5-3450
3x Horus w/3 AD8p, 6 AD8, 1 DA8, 2 DA8p
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby mpdonahue » Thu Feb 20, 2014 20:16

I spent the better part of a day with the RX dev team here in my studio last week going over the workflow issues with RX and demonstrating how reNOVAtor and Retouch work in the PMX render mode. There is a possibility we may see a PMX version of RX some day..... When? It's anybodies guess. I would contact the folks at Izotope and let them know there is a market for the product.
All the best,
-mark
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby charlienyc » Thu Feb 20, 2014 20:44

mpdonahue wrote:I would contact the folks at Izotope and let them know there is a market for the product.

hi Mark,
is there anyone in particular to contact? let's do this!
cheers,
-c
2x MassCore v10.1.4 Win7/64 i5-3450
3x Horus w/3 AD8p, 6 AD8, 1 DA8, 2 DA8p
Native v10.1.4 Win7/64 Pro i7 HP
Native v10.1.4 Win10 Bootcamp Mac Mini i5-4278U 2.6GHz
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby vinsondier » Thu Feb 20, 2014 23:09

That would be very very good news!!!!
The render process is a very powerful tool, i use retouch (and i use it a lot!) on one station, but i have only RX on another one.
Using RX in Pyramix is such a pain that most of the times i surrender, using it only for the biggest troubles...
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby klaukholm » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:44

Proper RX integration would be a huge improvement and a good selling point for Merging as well as Izotope
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby Perfect Record » Tue Mar 25, 2014 00:44

RX is a huge pain in the azz when working with surround files. It will happily open split stereo files if they're named in a way that RX likes ( I think only .L, .R- but possibly .1, .2) but it insists on exporting only interleaved stereo files, or mono files out for single file in. So how do we handle 5.0 or 5.1?

I've been jumping through so many hoops re-naming and splitting interleaved files back to split. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

When I contacted Izotope they acknowledged that they see the issue I'm having and they'd look into resolving it.
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby fl » Tue Mar 25, 2014 01:13

I've only recently started using RX3 in its plug-in forms with Pyramix. Some modules work well as Renders in the Effects Rack - Declip, Declick..., others not so much. Spectral Repair won't work at all, and if the DeNoiser needs to "learn" the noise profile, that's out as well.

So far, I haven't found an alternative to exporting tracks to mono or stereo WAV files for treatment in the RX stand-alone version, for the functions which are the main reasons for which I bought it. While it takes a little longer, I've found I get greater flexibility and better results if I treat my unmixed, raw tracks, rather than waiting to do it after mix-down.

While I wouldn't put it past the Izotope folks, I think it would be a huge undertaking to modify RX so that it could handle interleaved multi-track files. Suddenly you'd be faced with the prospect of assigning a "weight", so that some tracks get greater consideration than others when defining a noise profile. With stereo, you can expect that both channels will resemble each other to a greater degree than not, whereas with a 5.1 or larger grouping, the differences between the fronts and the surrounds (not to mention the LFE), are usually much more pronounced. I'll welcome multi-track capability if and when it comes, but I'm not holding my breath.

As for Pyramix, I think that the Effects Rack needs to be modified so that it can address those plug-ins that need to examine the audio material, or be otherwise prepared in some way - perhaps in some sort of window where you can highlight a small section of the audio material you intend to process.
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
http://LockwoodARS.com
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Win7 Pro SP1 64/32
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby RickTarrant » Tue May 27, 2014 17:27

I found this thread because I have had trouble with my waveforms getting out of sync after using RX3. This was making editing dialog a real PITA. Thank you for the tip to delete the PK2 file. Voila! All is right in my PMX world again.

RT
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby fl » Tue May 27, 2014 18:31

It would be nice if there were a "Force Re-draw Waveform Display" command somewhere within Pyramix. That way you wouldn't have to quit and relaunch the program just to delete some .pk2 files.
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
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Native 11.0.4/Native Music 9.1.10
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Bootcamp 5.1.5621/4.0.4033
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RME Fireface 800, driver version 3.122
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Re: Pyramix and iZotope RX3

Postby Perfect Record » Tue May 27, 2014 18:43

Two things.
Curious that you're having trouble with waveforms syncing. Never experienced that. Just wonder if you're re-naming files out of RX when you're through so that you're certain Pyramix is opening the proper waveform files.

Second,
I've never had to re make waveforms, but I'd think you would only need to close the project, put the waveform files in the trash, then re-open the project and re-make the waveform files. I don't think you have to quit Pyramix. But like I say, I've never had to rebuild waveforms.
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