MYK-MB5_AES/EBU DSD on Z97-A MB with ASM1083 PCI bridge

[youguanxi]

Hi!
How will Mykerinos MYK-MB5 with AES/EBU DSD daughter card feel itself on new generation Asus motherboard, namely Z97-A motherboard, which has two PCI slots, one sharing IRQ with integrated intel graphics, and another shares IRQ with SATA controller.
PCI slots operate through the ASMedia ASM1083 PCI-bridge (which is allegedly superior to Gigabyte's ITE-chip PCI-bridge).
I was frightened with Merging tech. Note regarding this problem on previous chipsets:
"Our internal tests conducted on such platforms indicate that the PCI performance on these motherboards is actually so poor that a single PCI card (such as the MYK-MB5) with an AES I/O daughter card will already use most of the available PCI bandwidth when running at 48 kHz sampling rate under MassCore. You may just forget using a MADI daughter card or any higher sampling rate above 48 kHz with such motherboards, despite the Mykerinos’ highly efficient PCI DMA (Direct Memory Access) engine."

I was going to use Mykerinos card as a transport (6 ch sampling rate 192kHz) from my server to feed my DAC. Will this be possible?
Thank you in advance,
Dmitry

[DJS]

I recently built a new PMX workstation with a Merging recommended motherboard (Intel DQ87PG) that used the ITE chip for PCI-Bridge. Well it was a disaster with my Lynx AES16 card (PCI). I had to replace it with an ASUS board, no ITE, chip, all works fine now. Beware of that ITE chip if you are using a PCI sound card. PCIe is OK of course.

[youguanxi]

Hi! David, I experienced the same disaster with Lynx on Gigabyte Z97 MB with ITE chip, that is why I'm a bit more precocious about upgrading a host card for the Mykerinos

[mpdonahue]

We're running Mykerinos on Intel DQ67 and Asus and Asrock Q77 and Q87 micro ATX motherboards here with out any issues.
All the Q series chipsets have native PCI support and do not require a PCI to PCIE bridge like the Z series. They are typically designed for business that requires legacy hardware.
Just be aware that the Mykerinos support days are numbered.
All the best,
-mark

[DJS]

All the Q series chipsets have native PCI support and do not require a PCI to PCIE bridge like the Z series.-mark

The Intel DQ87PG certainly has the ITE bridge chip so its not native support for PCI. I can take a photo of the chip on the board, if you like. Lynx confirmed terrible timing errors with this ITE chip and their cards. I replaced it with an ASUS Q87 board and it was fine.

The inadequate specification documents and misinformation about these boards and chipsets on the net, makes choosing the right hardware very tricky and somewhat expensive. Even the block diagram in Intel's technical spec doc appears to be wrong. As Intel seem to be getting out of the motherboard business, I guess they don't care about accuracy any more.

Trial and error is not my idea of the best way to build a workstation. In general ASUS seem to be the best bet now, but careful inspection of technical specs is still required, if even possible.

[AndrewB]

All the Q series chipsets have native PCI support and do not require a PCI to PCIE bridge like the Z series.

This "seemed" to be true: the Intel Q87 chipset supporting PCI direct to the platform controller hub.

I wasn't able to find block diagrams for the Asus Q87 board, but DJS's comment seemed to support the idea Asus made proper use of the Intel chipset for PCI. However, if the Intel DH82Q87 PCH does not support PCI expansion, then the Asus Q87 board will also not support PCI without a bridged chipset.

The Intel DQ87PG certainly has the ITE bridge chip so its not native support for PCI. I can take a photo of the chip on the board, if you like. Lynx confirmed terrible timing errors with this ITE chip and their cards. I replaced it with an ASUS Q87 board and it was fine.

The inadequate specification documents and misinformation about these boards and chipsets on the net, makes choosing the right hardware very tricky and somewhat expensive. Even the block diagram in Intel's technical spec doc appears to be wrong. ...

What is the chip number on the ITE bridge ? (e.g. ITE8892 )

This is troubling !! I have based many comments, in this forum and GS, upon reference to the Intel DQ87PG block diagram: which does indicate that PCI is directly routed to the PCH.

I have posted that the Gigabyte GA-Q87M-D2H, using the Q87 chipset, was bridged and this didn't make much sense at the time. Perhaps now it does. There is a conflict with the information posted by Intel.

With all this new information being shared it looks like the Intel Q87 PCH chip does not support PCI expansion.

[DJS]

Yes, it is the ITE8892. I took a photo of it on the Intel DQ87PG motherboard, which is now my media centre PC.
http://www.lodestarrecordings.com.au/do ... 29329.jpeg

[AndrewB]

Yes, it is the ITE8892. I took a photo of it on the Intel DQ87PG motherboard...

Great, thanks David.

I hope you don't mind that I posted your .jpeg on GS.

Here are two GS threads that might be of great interest:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... st10273407
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... doubt.html

Also worth mentioning, according to manufacturer documents, Supermicro X9SRH-7F supports 3 PCI slots directly to PCH (no Bridge chip).
We have not tested it however.
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=10060

[youguanxi]

Actually, there are no native support of PCI bus neither in any version of the 8th series, nor at the 9th, the last PCH to support PCI was X79 but this is designed for LGA2011 socket & will not work with 1150 CPU's.
So, now the question is whether a particular pcie to pci bridge implemented in a particular motherboard will work correctly with a particular soundboard or not.
For example, Asmedia ASM1083 chip, which is used in Asus boards works fine with Lynx cards, but should one install a Mykerinos there, he will receive the following message at VS3 startup: "Host PCI response time slow (>20) for proper Mykerinos Audio processing in Real time " I wonder, have anyone had a different experience?
And the opposite, Gigabyte Z87-D3H motherboard with ITE IT8892E chip http://cdn2.wccftech.com/wp-content/upl ... 7-D3HP.jpg (the same chip inside Z87-UD3H and the Z97-UD3H) is recommended by Merging, but doesn't work with Lynx.
Btw, good news: I have just installed Mykerinos MYK5 on new gen. Z97 chipset Gigabyte Z97X-UD3H motherboard, the one with ITE IT8892E chip onboard: however there have been unbearable troubles with the Lynx card on this MB, Mykerinos seems to work fine!
At VS3 startup there is no popup screen telling that "host PCI response time was slow (>20)..." anymore (again, with Asus Z97-A was). I haven't preformed enough heavy-load tests, thou. But let's assume, that Z87 Gigabyte motherboards, being certified by Merging, have a quite similar architecture to the vendor's corresponding models of Z97 chipset...
Would appreciate If anyone could proof my experience & confirm reliable operation of Mykerinos under Gigabyte Z97X-UD3H motherboard!
PS: Interesting, no matter what chip is onboard, Windows considers it Intel 82801 PCI Bridge-244E, which shares the 19th IRQ with the soundcard.
Dmitry

[DJS]

and a relevant thread from the Lynx forum.
http://www.lynxstudio.com/forum/forum_p ... compatible

[AndrewB]

...Would appreciate If anyone could proof my experience & confirm reliable operation of Mykerinos under ... Z97... motherboard!

Thanks Dmitry,
That information is indispensable !
(you might want to tone down the pic )

Are you able to hold off purchase of a new Mobo until the X99 ?

I'm not really sure the interim steps are really worth while.
(I even know a PC builder that continually tells me that Haswell 1150 wasn't really worth his while.)

[youguanxi]

Are you able to hold off purchase of a new Mobo until the X99 ?
I'm not really sure the interim steps are really worth while.

Andrew,
My previous GA-EP45-Extreme MB setup (LGA775) had died (southbridge - I resurrected it, but in a half a year term it died again), & have had to upgrade. Eventually I've found myself to be owner of two separate dedicated setups (Asus-Z97 for Lynx & Gigabyte Z97 for Mykerinos).

[AndrewB]

My previous GA-EP45-Extreme MB setup (LGA775) had died (southbridge - I resurrected it, but in a half a year term it died again), & have had to upgrade. ...

Our Abit AS8 (LGA775) is the most stable PC we've ever used. Still going: approx. a decade now ! (though in semi-retirement). We expect the C602 chipset will do the same.

[youguanxi]

Still going: approx. a decade now ! <...> We expect the C602 chipset will do the same.

Andrew,
Please let me know if ASIO drivers for PCI Mykerinos card work well on C602 chipset?
I have to share new experience: PCI Mykerinos ASIO drivers don't work on Gigabyte Z97 MB. I guess, similar situation with Gigabyte Z87 mobo.
However, Mykerinos ASIO drivers do work (with many bugs, thou) with the very same software setup (Win7 sp1 x86, Pyramix 7.0.10 SP2, JRiver Media Center 19, Foobar2000 1.3.3 with ASIO component v. 2.1.2, & similar BIOS settings) on the old LGA775 mobo (GA-EP43T-UD3L) with native PCI bus support.

[AndrewB]

Please let me know if ASIO drivers for PCI Mykerinos card work well on C602 chipset?

We have never run the ASIO drivers with Mykerinos. Until you mentioned it in another thread, didn't know it was available. In addition, I should mention that we traded-in one Mykerinos and sold the other a year ago. We may pickup another card in the future, so we wanted to leave the door open, and have a chipset that supported PCI directly. As well we still have a RME MADI pci for redundant backup on another PC.

The C602 is similar to the x79 in that is employs the LGA 2011 socket. X79 may only support two PCI slots (based on examples), however there is a Supermicro C602 example with three PCI ! A C602 will be more expensive since it's workstations/server grade and is associated with Xeon CPUs.

Our Z620 only has one PCI.

The x99 should be released September-ish. I'm curious to see if it will have direct PCI support via chipset.

Here is a link with my thoughts why x99 PCI support might be plausible. (I guess we'll know soon if this was on the right track).
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... st10278393