Time for a new PC

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Perfect Record
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Time for a new PC

Postby Perfect Record » Thu May 02, 2019 19:19

Running Pyramix native V11 on my current PC, I'm getting pretty poor performance. The machine is a few years old, but was rock solid on my last Pyramix version.

In V11, I'm getting slow scrolling, slow launch, poor VST performance and a crash or two a day.

Looking over the Merging recommended configurations, there are about 10 processors listed, and quite a few now obsolete motherboards. There is little guidance as to what features are critical.

I really don't know what factors matter when selecting a processor. My Pyramix rep suggested looking at a 16 core system, which seems a bit intense. Do I need greater processor speed, more cores?

Anyone have recommendations for successful machine build that gives solid performance in Native, especially when it comes to VST performance?

ljudatervinning
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby ljudatervinning » Fri May 03, 2019 10:39

Pyramix Native is singel threaded as far as I can see. Thus multicore processors will not add any significant performance.
Single core speed is key. Unfortunately, the latest processors have not increased single core speed by much, so you might not see much performance increase with a new processor.
It is very unfortunate that Pyramix Native is not multithreaded.
Pyramix Native 11.1.5 / Ravenna ASIO 11.1.5
win10 Pro 1803 / Nvidia GTX 670, 3 monitors
win10 Pro 1803 / Lenovo P50, 4K

DJS
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby DJS » Fri May 03, 2019 13:24

Quite. There is Native (single thread) and then a huge step up to MassCore, and nothing in between. Native is pretty poor on a modern hexcore system with plenty of computing power. Only three VST plugins here and it skips. We need a middle ground.

I have the SMP key on demo at present and have been experimenting with any benefits for Native. None found.
Last edited by DJS on Sat May 04, 2019 00:25, edited 1 time in total.
David Spearritt
Classical and Acoustic Music, BNE, Australia

Perfect Record
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby Perfect Record » Fri May 03, 2019 23:05

If what you're saying is true, then this is disheartening. I was getting pretty good performances on the same machine, running V8 masscore.

I'd hate to think we've taken a step backwards. There's no getting around it- VST plugs are critical to our work.

I'd still like to hear of any recent builds using current stock mother boards.

DJS
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby DJS » Sat May 04, 2019 00:25

I am using a current recommended config from Merging. ASRock Z370M and Intel 8700 Hexcore i7. Have run Native always, but I have a MassCore standard key so I can record DSD on Native if and when anyone wants it.
David Spearritt
Classical and Acoustic Music, BNE, Australia

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mpdonahue
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby mpdonahue » Sun May 05, 2019 18:31

Perfect Record wrote:If what you're saying is true, then this is disheartening. I was getting pretty good performances on the same machine, running V8 masscore.

I'd hate to think we've taken a step backwards. There's no getting around it- VST plugs are critical to our work.

I'd still like to hear of any recent builds using current stock mother boards.
Preston,
For VST processing, there are only 2 options for Pyramix.
Native is single thread. Period. for this reason, there is very little reason to go with an I7 or any hyperthreading processor. You will actually, get better processing with Hyper threading turned off on an I7 in native.
For VST processing, Masscore is multithread, always.
With that out out the way, there are things tho think about when applying VST plugins in a Masscore system. The big takeaway, is that each channel strip is assigned to a single thread. If you have a bunch of processing stacked up on a single strip or bus, you will run into DSP issues. if you spread the processing out (Putting additional processing on a sub group or similar) you can spread the processing out across multiple threads of the processor.
All the best,
-mark
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DJS
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby DJS » Thu Jun 27, 2019 23:49

I have been experimenting with my MassCore licence and the SMP key, just added. Even with this capability, a master buss with more than one or two demanding VST plugins is still struggling. As I understand from Mark's helpful explanations, one strip of VST's remains single threaded. I have spectral noise reduction and a limiter in series and the VST Core is up near 100%. Increasing the VST buffer size brings this down somewhat. Will contact Merging for some ideas, but its a little frustrating. Mind you, with this setup of Masscore Standard and the SMP key and 4 cores reserved for Masscore, the rest of PMX runs like a cut cat.
David Spearritt
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mpdonahue
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby mpdonahue » Wed Jul 03, 2019 20:50

DJS wrote:I have been experimenting with my MassCore licence and the SMP key, just added. Even with this capability, a master buss with more than one or two demanding VST plugins is still struggling. As I understand from Mark's helpful explanations, one strip of VST's remains single threaded. I have spectral noise reduction and a limiter in series and the VST Core is up near 100%. Increasing the VST buffer size brings this down somewhat. Will contact Merging for some ideas, but its a little frustrating. Mind you, with this setup of Masscore Standard and the SMP key and 4 cores reserved for Masscore, the rest of PMX runs like a cut cat.

Add a mix group (not bus) to the project, route all that is going to the master bus to that mix group and disconnect from master bus. Then route mix group to master bus. Apply de-noising to mix group and limiter to the bus...
All the best,
-mark
*********************

Mark Donahue

Soundmirror, Inc.

Boston, MA

mark@soundmirror.com

www.soundmirror.com

*********************

DJS
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby DJS » Fri Jul 05, 2019 23:58

Many thanks Mark, I understand. Will give this a try.
David Spearritt
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Graemme
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby Graemme » Mon Jul 08, 2019 00:04

David,

I don't have the SMP key myself, so this is speculation:

Can you reverse your allocation and use 4 processors for VST and 2 for MassCore? If this is the case, then combining this with Mark's suggestions would make for a very VST-capable system.

I run 1x MassCore processor and 3x VST processors, splitting my VST load among input/mix group/output bus paths and get a lot of DSP 'traction' out of an older, modest i5 / 3.2GHz system.

Cheers,

Graemme
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Perfect Record
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Re: Time for a new PC

Postby Perfect Record » Thu Jul 18, 2019 19:35

DO NOT try to select anything except the default core allocation in the VS3 control panel if you have the 1x Masscore license!

Doing so may break your Masscore and prevent the system from operating. At least in V 11.5 on Windows 7.

This happened to me in a rather high priced studio, and took my system out of action for a couple hours. If you're new to Masscore in V11, it's very difficult to figure out what you just broke. It will just look as if your Hapi/Horus or NIC card are failing. Pyramix doesn't launch.

If this happens to you, go to the MT Security CP in Windows and uninstall the Masscore runtime and re-install. When the system breaks, you will not get any error messages that will help you figure out why Pyramix won't launch.

Luckily, we didn't have any musicians in the studio when the system went down.