Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyramix?

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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby ljudatervinning » Wed Oct 25, 2017 15:17

Upgrade RX seem to be the next step if RX Connect is good.
However, I will still be in trouble if I edit in Wavelab or any other external editor.

To report back on my solution, the quickest way seem to be:

1. Identify original filename ie. xxx.wav.
2. Open and process xxx.wav in external editor, and save as new file, ie. xxx_fix.wav.
3. Change name of original file, ie. xxx_orig.wav
4. Change name of new file to xxx.wav
5. Remove pk2 files.
6. Open Pyramix

Benefit to the above method is that all clips/edits where xxx.wav are being used will automatically update.

How does all film-sound editors and mastering engineers do when a sound effect, new mix of a song etc. are updated?

Edit: and if I need to edit multiple files, RX has a powerful batch editor.
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby fl » Wed Oct 25, 2017 17:52

ljudatervinning wrote:Upgrade RX seem to be the next step if RX Connect is good.

Yes, test this out with the demo before you spend any money. As you are someone who already owns RX, the upgrade cost will be discounted, and you may be able to find other third-party vendors who offer additional discounts (like Artek Productions - arteksound@earthlink.net).

the quickest way seems to be:

1. Identify original filename ie. xxx.wav.
2. Open and process xxx.wav in external editor, and save as new file, ie. xxx_fix.wav.
3. Change name of original file, ie. xxx_orig.wav
4. Change name of new file to xxx.wav
5. Remove pk2 files.
6. Open Pyramix

Yes, that will work just fine, although as I pointed out earlier, creating the "replacement" files from doing a Render, automatically replaces Clips already placed on your Timeline, preserving their timing and position, thus allowing you to save editing work already performed.
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby ljudatervinning » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:23

Frank, I am not sure I understand the merit of your last advice.
Could you please explain.

As I see it, every edit using file xxx.wav will update in my example, on both Source and Destination timeline, and all non destructive edits will be preserved in Pyramix. If the file was used several times in the final edit, all files will be replaced with the new version.

If I understand you correctly, this will not happen in your approach? Only the particular rendered clip be updated with the new file?
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby fl » Thu Oct 26, 2017 16:22

ljudatervinning wrote:As I see it, every edit using file xxx.wav will update in my example, on both Source and Destination timeline, and all non destructive edits will be preserved in Pyramix. If the file was used several times in the final edit, all files will be replaced with the new version.

Yes, if you have not yet done any S-D editing, your approach is the more suitable method. I was thinking that you had already finished your editing, and then discovered you needed to RXify some individual clips, and would prefer to fix things without disrupting all the work you had done already. In cases like that, my method of using Rendering to export the material will preserve your existing edits, by essentially "tricking" Pyramix into recognizing the RXed file as being what should be there.

If I understand you correctly, this will not happen in your approach? Only the particular rendered clip be updated with the new file?

Yes, that's correct. Rendering one instance of a Take for RX processing, will only process that one use.

In some cases it's better to do all your RXing on entire (Source) takes, just as you've described above - especially if you anticipate that the First Edit will not be the last...

In other cases, when you're absolutely certain that the edited assembly you've created is indeed the final version, you can simply Render the whole assembly (one or two Tracks per file, due to RX's limitation on track counts). This method, however, does require you to commit to the edited assembly you've got - what the movie people call "locked". However, when is "locked" really "locked"?

RX6's "Composite View" will allow you to work on multiple files all at once (provided their contents, start and end times, and durations correspond), and for things like Spectral Repair, this is a good option for saving time. On the other hand, applying something like Spectral Noise Reduction (e.g. for pervasive hiss) is better done on a track by track basis, as the noise threshold and spectral make-up will vary from track to track, and doing them all in Composite View is limited by the fact that RX will only look at the first, or top, one (stereo) or two (mono) files in the "pile" being used to Learn the noise Threshold. As long as you limit use of the Composite View to those processes which don't have to "Learn" anything before they're applied, you can take advantage of this feature, and of course there's nothing to prevent you from going back and forth from Composite to expanded View while you work, although you should probably Save your work to the individual .rxdoc files every time you switch back and forth. If in doubt, Save.

It comes down to how much work you want/need to do - and bill for - in advance, vs. waiting until after you've edited. A friend of mine calls this the "Three to One Rule of Recording", where for every three hours you work on a project, the client will only want to pay you for one.
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby ljudatervinning » Thu Oct 26, 2017 19:55

Yes, if you have not yet done any S-D editing, your approach is the more suitable method. I was thinking that you had already finished your editing, and then discovered you needed to RXify some individual clips, and would prefer to fix things without disrupting all the work you had done already. In cases like that, my method of using Rendering to export the material will preserve your existing edits, by essentially "tricking" Pyramix into recognizing the RXed file as being what should be there


I believe I was unclear in my explanation.
I did edit in RX after S/D editing was done.
The beauty of exchanging the original file is that Pyramix (technically) probably have a pointer to the file when placed on the timeline, probably referenced/defined by the filename and an offset time.
All editing in Pyramix will be intact if the new file is of equal length.
However a function within Pyramix to alter the source file (as in Wavelab) would be even better than fiddling with filenames.
I had hoped it existed, but it apparently it did not.
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby ljudatervinning » Tue Nov 07, 2017 15:26

Also, thank you Frank for your effort and explanation!
I am testing it in another editing project.
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby ljudatervinning » Sat Dec 02, 2017 20:45

Follow up:

I have been using Rendering quiet a lot now the last week.
Works really god, and I also found a convenient way of using the Media Manager in the process.

What I am still struggling with is how to go back to the original edit without undoing every edit you've done afterwords, once you have done the "Rendering process".
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby fl » Sun Dec 03, 2017 20:11

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. "Go Back"? "Original Edit"?
Do you mean that you want to recall the, um, un-RXed material that was used for a section (or all) of your edited assembly?
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby ljudatervinning » Mon Dec 04, 2017 00:50

Yes, exactly, recall the unedited material, for whatever reason.
My example is a pitch-shift that went too far and I needed to correct it, so I wanted to go back to the original material.
I solved it my opening an old project and Render the part without any effect applied, and then import that file.

Is there a smarter way?
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Re: Edit in external editor - how to get file back in Pyrami

Postby fl » Mon Dec 04, 2017 17:52

At this point, I think it's a matter of personal preference.

I still prefer the "replace the file with a modified one which has the same name" method which involves "tricking" Pyramix into substituting a changed (RXified) file for the original one, which is best set up with a Render operation. That way, your edits (joins) remain in place since the pointers still will point to the same places in the recorded material. It's a little finicky, but still, less finicky than having to re-do two or more edits.

BTW, as of Pyramix 10, there is a pitch and time changing process included within Pyramix (ZTX Pro), which might allow you to skip the trip out to, and back from, RX.
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