Sequoia pitch change - anyone?

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per
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Sequoia pitch change - anyone?

Postby per » Wed Feb 17, 2016 14:56

Hi Guys.

I'm not a Sequoia user, but I guess some of you are. I'd appreciate if someone could explain this to me:
Apparently, a pitch change in Sequoia is immediate. To me that sounds too good to be true, but a Sequoia user that I'm trying to convert to Pyramix showed me this. He selected a multitrack clip in 96kHz and in the object manager he made a pitch change - and it was done. I was totally amazed. He thinks that the editing workflow in Pyramix is way too slow and indeed a pitch change with Dirac takes forever and a requires a lot of steps.

Can anyone explain what happens? How can it be so fast? I mean, the numbers must be crunched somehow...
Cheers and thanks
Per
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allemano bernard@neuf.fr
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Re: Sequoia pitch change - anyone?

Postby allemano bernard@neuf.fr » Wed Feb 17, 2016 16:56

Hi,

It's true, in Samplitude, and Sequoia; Cubase, etc, etc.... all DAWs in the world have this function inclued in the timeline, and very quick and easy.
I must admit that Pyramix is far behind compared to competitors concerning this function.... I use Melodyne in stand alone mode if I whant to correct a complète voice, but if I whant to make a good and little correction, I use DIRAC. For me, the better.

But

Every day, I can see how it is easy and quick to work with Pyramix. With a very good result. for editing; mixing; mastering; etc... the quality of the strip tools / bus tools / equX, etc.... the signal routing, since V 10; with samplitude (or sequoia) you have to spend many time to obtain a result acceptable. Pyramix is clear, fast, and easy.

Best regards,

Bernard
pyramix 10 Native; windows 10 64 Bits; Asrock Z 270 PRO 4; intel core i7 7700 4.20 GHz; 16G DDR4;
1 X M2 Nvme for system; 1 X SSD for medias; 1 WD Caviar Black 1T. for backups.

per
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Re: Sequoia pitch change - anyone?

Postby per » Wed Feb 17, 2016 17:30

Hi Bernard.
I definitely agree that Pyramix is outstanding when it comes to mixing and mastering - especially with the new bus structure. It's the editing features that need ot be improved if Pyramix is to be the #1 DAW for the whole production chain. Many producers I work with do their editing work in Sequoia and then I do the mixing in Pyramix.

Cheers
Per
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fl
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Re: Sequoia pitch change - anyone?

Postby fl » Wed Feb 17, 2016 17:45

I am not a Sequoia user, but a couple of years ago, I had the loan of a dealer's copy for a month to try it out. I must say that the thing that impressed me the most about it was its object oriented editing.

I discovered that Magix licensed code developed by zplane for their pitch changing operations. Zplane has packaged their technology into a plugin, "Elastique", found here: https://products.zplane.de/elastique-pitch-2

This plugin gives you the ability to shift pitch and/or formants, linked or independently, plus or minus an octave. As is the case with most pitch shifting, it begins to sound artificial if you stray outside the range of a minor third, and if you choose to adjust formants independently of pitch, artifacts quickly become apparent. I think this is the answer to your question as to why Dirac takes longer - zplane sacrifices sound quality for speed and ease of operation. However, if used tastefully, its effect is immediate and can sound quite convincing.

Since it can be used as a Mixer plugin, it can be automated, so you can apply gradual pitch changes across time, and indeed my original purpose in getting this plugin was to correct the gradual pitch drift which can occur with unaccompanied singers. The bad news is that its 2 octave range is displayed in Pyramix's automation as the range between +1 and -1, making fine (less than a whole tone) adjustment difficult and somewhat clumsy, since Automation break-point positioning precision is limited to two decimal points.

If all you're after is a static pitch shift for a short duration, it's probably better to use it with a Render/FX Rack operation, although if you already own Izotope RX Advanced, the pitch shifting available there probably sounds better. Of course, if you're using the Render/FX Rack, it's going to take longer than using Dirac within Pyramix.
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per
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Re: Sequoia pitch change - anyone?

Postby per » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:02

Thank you all for comments.

Frank, I am using Dirac, but I thought by rendering was the way to do it. Is there another (quicker) way?
Still, the difference in calculation time between zplane and Dirac is huge. I realize they must be sacrificing quality for speed. Or are they doing the pitch change "live" every time the object is played?
Per
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Re: Sequoia pitch change - anyone?

Postby fl » Thu Feb 18, 2016 17:45

To date, I've only used Dirac via the "Stretch" command in the Edit menu. There is a "Stretch/Pitch" command in the Project menu, but it appears that is to call Prosonic MPEX2, which I don't own. I can, as you reported, access Dirac pitch manipulation via Rendering. I sure hope that the inclusion of Dirac to version 10 is not a mistake, like what they did with Final Check in the first release of version 8 (and then later took back). I've used it twice now to lengthen notes that should have been held longer.
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
http://LockwoodARS.com
Native 11.1.5
Win7 Pro SP1 64
Bootcamp 5.1.5621
Mac Mini 6.2 (Quadcore i7)
RME Fireface 800, driver version 3.125