Pyramix upgrade charge.

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Vangelis
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:04

Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Vangelis » Fri May 01, 2015 19:23

Hi,
How logical is it to be charged twice if I upgrade from P7 to P9?

I am Pyramix user since P4. Mykerinos

After upgrading through v5, 6, and 7, and paying a seperate fee for every version, and using every one for a decent time span, I eventually stayed with P7 Masscore for some years, and decided to jump to P9 (skipping P8).

Is it decent to pay 2 fees for upgrading to P9? (one for 8 and one for 9)? without the need to have version 8?

Because that is what I was asked to do.

If this is normal, then all is ok, I will deal with it.

Vangelis
Planet REC music productions.
Vangelis Spanakakis, producer - artist.

DJS
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 05:26
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby DJS » Sat May 02, 2015 00:24

I pay the yearly ASM maintenance fee. Its a loyalty fee that keeps PMX supplying me with improved software. Software is never finished (despite what people might like to think), bugs and errors are always in it, so its not something you buy and it lasts a long time, unchanged. Its like a subscription. You get to use it for awhile until the manufacturer decides he needs to fix some of the important bugs and issue an update. The manufs need money to keep developing and fixing the software. There is effort expended for each stage and they need to earn to execute these stages.

I am happy with the yearly fee. I think its worthwhile, it more than pays for itself in productivity benefits. One needs to amortise this "cost of doing business" fee into the work that is done.

The real danger with software development is creating something that people will NOT want to upgrade. The company would be doomed.
David Spearritt
Classical and Acoustic Music, BNE, Australia

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fl
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby fl » Sat May 02, 2015 22:04

Vangelis,

It is unusual to be asked to pay full price for two versions to get caught up - at least, that is the case in Canada.

When I got behind with my Annual Software Maintenance payments a few years ago, they allowed me to simply pay the installments I had missed to get me caught up - way cheaper than buying the program all over again.

How many years ago did you settle on version 7 and make your last payment? Talk with your dealer and see if paying the ASM for the intervening years would be agreeable.

Let's face it, the subscription model is taking over the world. Pro Tools users are grumbling now about how Avid is shifting to this model, but when you look at it, it's really the only way that a software company can insure a steady cash flow, and thereby continue to work on the program. Since Merging is a small company (certainly, compared to Avid), this is especially important, and we all have a vested interest in keeping them in business.
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
http://LockwoodARS.com
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Paulo M
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Paulo M » Sun May 03, 2015 14:40

Hi Vangelis,

I don´t agree that is right having to buy two upgrades to jump one version at all. Even to jump more versions. V10 will probably be released in the near future as is in beta already as far as I know. In your case and considering what you said you´ve been asked to pay, then you will need to pay 3 upgrades if jumping straight from 7 to 10. If the average per each upgrade for a Masscore pack is for example 500 euros, having to pay 1500 euros to jump from v7 to v10 is absurd.

The first reason I can think of, for not agreeing, is that sometimes a new version might introduce features that a particular user might not be interested in. Software companies may have development priorities that in many cases forget to address features that the majority of it´s users might really want or think are important and concentrate on other features that most people might not need. So why pay for something that you don´t need?

For instance, V8 as I remember was mostly about the Ravenna implementation and Horus interfacing, so if you´re still a Mykerinos user at the time and didn´t need Ravenna or new converters, maybe it was not worth it.

But now, V10 brings a shift to 64bit which is not compatible with Mykerinos cards, so on top of all the pricing to upgrade, you will need to buy new converters as well. True, Merging had a fair trade programme for the Mykerinos cards for some years if you would buy an Horus/Hapi, but even so, sometimes the time frame for a given exchange programme might not be adequate for everybody, in particular if the software new features are not particularly relevant.

Regarding ASM, I have mixed feelings. In a way, paying an annual fee might prove slightly cheaper than paying for a version upgrade, but in a way that puts an extra burden on the cost of the software itself, which in Merging case is not cheap by any means. And again, you may be paying to subsidize the R&D of features and products that may not appeal to you or that don´t bring a revenue in practical terms. The idea that that may help small companies (in comparison) like Merging to survive and keep updating their products to the benefit of their users investments is naive, in my opinion. The best effort companies may do to keep and expand business is to listen to their customers and have a product that due to innovation and feature implementations keeps attracting new users and mantains their user base.

Software subscription is of course upon us, and AVID is just another one making the jump, although with a lot of complaints and less than clear policies already. Adobe did it as well, in my opinion much smoother and others in the NLE market will follow, no doubt. What users want is to pay as and when they need, not to pay for what they don´t need.

I´m not aware if Merging would implement or nor a subscription business model or not with Pyramix in the future, but for now, asking people to fully pay for each upgrade in between versions is not the right move in my opinion. I would favour a small fee added per each "jump" on top of a normal upgrade price, but that would be it.
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

Vangelis
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:04

Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Vangelis » Sun May 03, 2015 18:34

I Fully agree with Paulo M...
It is as if Merging is forcing me to buy the ASM, while I don't need it.

Frank I can't remember for how long i was using v7...

Anyway now I have already paid 500 for version 8, which attracted me for the "not rebuild the mixer everytime" feature and nothing more for the time being...
I didn't have the extra 500 for version 9 which was much more attractive.

I am a Pyramix lover. We are not many in Greece using and many students and artists/clients have discovered its existance thanks to me.
I am dissapointed with this policy and don't know if my words will come out positive anymore.
Planet REC music productions.

Vangelis Spanakakis, producer - artist.

DJS
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 05:26
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby DJS » Sun May 03, 2015 23:01

ASM is much cheaper than upgrades, considering that Merging have had the major version upgrade around April/May each and every year, for the last 3 or 4 years. So ASM is definitely a cheaper option than paying the upgrade. If one browses the bugfix list, there are a lot of things fixed that are useful to all users.
David Spearritt
Classical and Acoustic Music, BNE, Australia

Vangelis
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:04

Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Vangelis » Mon May 04, 2015 15:46

This is true if you upgrade every time a new version comes out.
What if you are forced by some reasons to stay with a specific one for years, as it is in my case?
Planet REC music productions.

Vangelis Spanakakis, producer - artist.

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mpdonahue
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby mpdonahue » Tue May 05, 2015 18:05

Vangelis wrote:I Fully agree with Paulo M...
It is as if Merging is forcing me to buy the ASM, while I don't need it.

Frank I can't remember for how long i was using v7...

Anyway now I have already paid 500 for version 8, which attracted me for the "not rebuild the mixer everytime" feature and nothing more for the time being...
I didn't have the extra 500 for version 9 which was much more attractive.

I am a Pyramix lover. We are not many in Greece using and many students and artists/clients have discovered its existance thanks to me.
I am dissapointed with this policy and don't know if my words will come out positive anymore.

To play devils advocate for a minute, you have gotten 4-5 years of service out of the v7 software you have bought and can continue to use it for as long as you want. The policy is very clear and actually better than what most other workstations charge. Trust me , I know the pain of writing that yearly check, (We have 12 Masscore systems and the total comes to just over 5k each year. )but it is the price to pay for the continued development of the platform and for the free support.
All the best,
Mark
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Soundmirror, Inc.
Boston, MA
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www.soundmirror.com
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Grzyby15
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Grzyby15 » Thu May 07, 2015 09:52

It is always better to upgrade and update rather than having no support.

Johan_Wadsten
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Johan_Wadsten » Wed May 13, 2015 15:47

Hi All

It is never an easy thing to get the balance of fair vs free right;-)

As many have stated in the thread here, we have an active ASM (Annual Software Maintenance) program that gets you your free updates to software within the year that it is active. BUT, (a very big but!) it also gets you support from our local representatives AND (bigger and!) our dedicated Swiss support team. We have prided ourselves on being able to offer friendly and consistent support. And, for those users who have left their system at a specific version for a number of years (for whatever reason) we have tried our best to make a fair way to get to the newest version when they feel the time is right.

Option 1 is to buy each and every upgrade that exists in between the version you are on, and the version you want to get to. This is a pricey route, especially if you are in a much older version. and it doesnt get you any support

Option 2 is to buy a single Upgrade along with an ASM contract. This means that the combined price would be less than that of 2 upgrade jumps. More than one i completely agree, but less than two... AND (more big ands :) )
... With that ASM contract you get access to support. this means that when you find it hard to get around the new version, find something you feel might be a bug, or any other question marks that may come up... then you can feel free to contact our support at your convenience.

The real reason we urge people towards option 2 is that we have found with access to support in the initial phases after a big upgrade, the user will end up being more able to handle the new version and more comfortable with following us to new versions to follow.

I hope that this explanation helps to decode our practices a bit. If you are feeling a bit better about the idea of ASM i would like to extend to you the offer that if you want to get all the way to V9.1, we can tack on the ASM cost to your V8 upgrade cost and get you sorted out with the newest version and our support team!

All the best
Johan - Product Manager

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Paulo M
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Paulo M » Tue May 19, 2015 00:19

Option 1 is to buy each and every upgrade that exists in between the version you are on, and the version you want to get to. This is a pricey route, especially if you are in a much older version. and it doesnt get you any support

Option 2 is to buy a single Upgrade along with an ASM contract. This means that the combined price would be less than that of 2 upgrade jumps. More than one i completely agree, but less than two... AND (more big ands :) )
... With that ASM contract you get access to support. this means that when you find it hard to get around the new version, find something you feel might be a bug, or any other question marks that may come up... then you can feel free to contact our support at your convenience.


With all due respect, I would like to suggest a third option:

Option 3: Forget about which version you´re stuck with. No questions asked.Jump to Pyramix more recent version and keep being a Pyramix user. We need you!

Who wants to jump one upgrade only if two more versions are available? Buy one version upgrade and the ASM for support of that version only? Knowing that two more recent versions exist already(considering V10 to be released in the mid term). Or charging fully upgrade prices per each version? I hope you don´t have any old V5 clients around that may want to give Pyramix another go, they may decide to go on vacation to the Caribean instead of spending all that cash.

I´ll give you an example: I´m in V7.1. Two Mykerinos cards. Masscore version with DSD support. If I want to go to V10, I need to get rid of the Mykerinos cards, buy an Horus/Hapi with premium AD/DA cards. Fair enough, technology keeps moving, I understand, there´s a price for that. But on top of that you´re going to ask me for 3 upgrade prices? Get real! Not to mention a V6 I have lying around, that´s 4 upgrade item prices.

What about V Cube XE owners? Now that V10 will offer proper video integration with hardware support (which I´ve been suggesting for years), are you going to do a rebate if I upgrade to V10, considering I have a VCube XE already? God, I just remembered now, it´s version 3. I will need to pay 3 versions upgrade on that too!
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

Mario
Posts: 112
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Mario » Tue May 19, 2015 01:22

Hi,

I believe Option 2 means, the user just buy one upgrade and the ASM and he is entitled to version 10.

regards

klaukholm
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby klaukholm » Tue May 19, 2015 08:28

Mario wrote:Hi,

I believe Option 2 means, the user just buy one upgrade and the ASM and he is entitled to version 10.

regards


Correct, you pay the cost of an upgrade from 8 to 9 regardless your previous version, plus you also have to buy ASM.

So as an example, if you are on v5 you still only pay for an upgrade from 8 to 9 plus ASM.

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Paulo M
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Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby Paulo M » Tue May 19, 2015 14:24

Correct, you pay the cost of an upgrade from 8 to 9 regardless your previous version, plus you also have to buy ASM.

So as an example, if you are on v5 you still only pay for an upgrade from 8 to 9 plus ASM.


That´s not what I understood, but I may be wrong of course. So what happens if you´re on V7 and wait for the V10 release to upgrade? Pay one upgrade only and ASM to be entitled for support and one year V10 updates?

I find it a bit confusing, considering what Vangelis described he was asked to pay for and Johan´s options.
Best regards,

Paulo M

Pyramix 7.1 Masscore
VCube XE 3.1
MB5 Dual & X50 MADI
Win XP SP3
Intel Q9600/Gigabyte X48 DS5 Motherboard/ASUS 4350 Graphic card

klaukholm
Posts: 504
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 00:36
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Pyramix upgrade charge.

Postby klaukholm » Tue May 19, 2015 14:37

Johan represents Merging and what he outlines is Mergings policy.
If you do it now, you will by default get v10 as part of the price since that update will come within the 1 year period the ASM is valid for.
ASM gives you full support and all updates for one year.

Vangelis wrote:I am a Pyramix lover. We are not many in Greece using and many students and artists/clients have discovered its existance thanks to me.
I am dissapointed with this policy and don't know if my words will come out positive anymore.


Students get a very good discount on software. Here in Sweden it is currently 75% on the initial purchase.