Fades editing problem with safe fade/force fade

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goupils
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 15:24

Fades editing problem with safe fade/force fade

Postby goupils » Mon Nov 03, 2014 19:35

Hello,

I'm editing on Pyramix 8.1 and 9.0 fade editor, and few times, after having made a nice fade, I go to the next one, and so on few times. Then I listen back to the whole edit and I hear all my previous fades "gone"... :-( I've got the following problem few times on native and masscore computers (but I think it doesn't matter...).
I think the problem comes from the safe/force fade check box. I've read the user's manual but it isn't very clear. What I understood is to avoid that problem, I should check both boxes. But It doesn't work. I cannot move the audio waveforms to left/right without damage the previous edits...
And on some other projects (on the same computer), it works fine. But even when comparing it, I can't find which options are different...

Does anyone already experienced that problem? Is there something special I'm missing?
Thanks!

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fl
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Re: Fades editing problem with safe fade/force fade

Postby fl » Mon Nov 03, 2014 22:45

goupils wrote:I hear all my previous fades "gone"


Can you clarify what you mean by "gone"? Crossfade now 0 ms.? Edit point moved? Clips removed?

Not that it should matter, but are you using the Crossfade editor as a Tab or a Window? How do you "okay" a finished edit? Do you close the Window/Tab? Use the "Thumbs Up" or "Down" icons? Move from crossfade to crossfade with the arrow keys at the top of the Crossfade Editor?

Having both the "Fade Safe" and "Force Safe" boxes checked should protect your work - before or after.

What have you got set in the main Edit Menu > Editing Modes > Insert Mode/Remove Mode/Snap Mode? (Hopefully "Overwrite", "Remove" and "Don't Snap" respectively). Also, in the Edit Menu, do you have "Auto Crossfade" enabled? Do you have "Auto Ripple" disabled? What is selected in the Edit > Source/Destination sub-menu? Is "3 Gates Auto-Edit does Overwrite" enabled?

In Pyramix's Settings > Application > Editing window, do you have "Apply Default Fade at New Fade Creation" and "Enable Undo for every Fade Editor Change" enabled? Is "Redirect Timeline Play and Zoom Shortcuts to Fade Editor" disabled?

What about all the source material clips - are they all the same sample rate, or is there a mixture?

Worst coming to worst, have you tried doing a "Repair" installation with the appropriate Pyramix installer - or uninstalling then reinstalling? With your anti-malware, anti-virus and Win7's "User Account Control" turned off?
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
http://LockwoodARS.com
• Pyramix Native 11.1.6
• Mac Mini 6.2 (Quadcore i7) - Bootcamp 5.1.5621 - Win7 Pro SP1 64
• HP 7100 Mini-tower - Win10 Pro 64 1809
• RME Fireface 800 ASIO driver 3.125 or ASIO4All 2.13

goupils
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 15:24

Re: Fades editing problem with safe fade/force fade

Postby goupils » Wed Nov 05, 2014 15:20

the fade is still there, with the right length and same "drawing" but the clip which shouldn't move (thanks to the "safe fade" box) did, so my work is gone...

To make a fade, I put the cursor between the two clips, sometimes i select the area an press ctrl+f11 (set standard fade) then press Q to open the fade editor window (i never do it on tab). If I didn't press ctrl+f11, than I click on the crossfade button in the editor window to make one. Once done, I click on "accept changes and close editor" (thumbs up). Sometimes, I move from fade to fade with the aroows (actually using for almost everythings my own shortcuts)

Edit menu is as yo wrote, but auto-crossfade wasn't enable (auto-ripple disabled).
The source/dest menu is as well as you wrote - but in this project i'm not using source/destination.
In pyramix's settings, nothing was selected. I prefer not using the undo/redo for fade editor. "Redirect timeline..." was disabled. I know it can be details but it shouldn't be that, rigth?

I've that problem time to time on simple or bigger projects. I don't remember using other sample rates for clips. I never tried to reinstall or repair Pyramix, but I'm working at least on 3 different computers and I already had it on all of them with different version of pyramix.
My laptop is Pyramix native v9.0, recently (re)installed - and I used v8.0 & v8.1 (I bought it), & school's computer are (i'm still a student) pyramix masscore dedicated computers, both v8.0 then 8.1

Does it makes it clearer? would you have an idea?

Thanks anyway!

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fl
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Re: Fades editing problem with safe fade/force fade

Postby fl » Wed Nov 05, 2014 18:03

It sounds like you're doing everything correctly, and indeed "Fade Safe" and "Force Safe" should prevent what is happening, so it sounds like something has gone wrong with the protocols in the program. The fact that it is intermittent makes it just that much harder to track down. However, the fact that you are encountering this issue on two different versions of Pyramix on three different computers points to some personal configuration that you've built, that is in conflict with the program's default behaviour and not, as I had suggested earlier, an installation problem.

I found this out the hard way, when I made some of my own keyboard shortcuts specifically for use in the Crossfade Editor window. Merry hijinks ensued, seemingly at random, until I reassigned my chosen keys for those functions, to keys that Pyramix was not already using as mouse click modifiers. I'd suggest that you take a good look at the Mouse Modifier Keys section in the manual (Appendix 1 - page 773 or thereabouts). Unlike Menu commands and their assigned shortcuts, mouse modifier keys will not show up as the source of possible conflicts when you are creating Keyboard Shortcuts in its editor.

You also mention that you like to use the editor in its own window - as do I. However, I find that whenever I start a new project, or open an existing one, my first call to the editor opens the tab, with the "map pin" in its vertical position - this seems to be the Pyramix default behaviour. A second click on the "Call Crossfade Editor" button will re-open it in its own window (which I then, invariably have to re-size). If I close the window using the "Thumbs Up" button, I find this will send it back to being an open Tab, which I then have to re-close by clicking on the "Map-Pin". The workaround that I'm using is to open it, and establish it as a window, size it, and then use the Windows Closer (top right corner), which does what it should. The next time I call the editor, it will open directly to a properly sized window. As long as I use the Windows closer and not the "thumbs" I can continue in this manner.

Are you saying that you've found a way around this little dance, and can open the editor to its own window directly? I'd be eager to learn how. On the other hand, it's possible that something you've set up here might be the/a source of your problems.

goupils wrote:the fade is still there, with the right length and same "drawing" but the clip which shouldn't move (thanks to the "safe fade" box) did, so my work is gone...


Are you saying that the edit point moves (relative to the absolute time scale), or the related media moves, seemingly "underneath" the established edit points, which remain at their original time location? Or does the media remain at the same Timescale location, while the edit points move? Determining this could quite possibly point to the source of your problem.

goupils wrote:(actually using for almost everythings my own shortcuts)


There is the function where if you hold down Shift + Control, then click and drag a selected clip with the mouse, you can move the media while the edit points remain stationary. Again, I'm wondering about a possible keyboard shortcut conflicting with a mouse modifier key.

goupils wrote:I prefer not using the undo/redo for fade editor.


And yet, it would be instructive to see if this function, or the "Undo" in the general Edit Menu, would re-establish your proper edit. For the Crossfade Editor Undo, you have to enable this function in the Settings > Application > Editing page "Enable Undo for every Fade Editor Change". Also, you may need to adjust the total number of Undo/Redos available, which is done in the Application > General window.

If you can "Undo" your way back to a correct edit, then it's pretty clear that there is some process happening after you close the Editor, that is messing with your edits. Once you know it's a process, and not a bug or other problem in the program, you can then start to hunt for a possible misconfiguration and/or conflict.

goupils wrote:To make a fade, I put the cursor between the two clips, sometimes i select the area an press ctrl+f11


I never use this shortcut, because I've discovered some funky behaviour with it. If I have a project with, say, six tracks, and the clips on those tracks are grouped (not Track Grouped, just Clip Grouped), if I just position the cursor between two clips without selecting anything, and then Control+f11, the crossfade will only be applied to the first two tracks, not all six. For this reason, I always select the right-most clip - the one following the join - before calling the Crossfade Editor. (If the right-most clip is Selected, then Control-f11 will work for all the clips.) If I'm editing a multi-track project, I'll often set the Crossfade Editor to only display two tracks (even though I'm editing six), so that I can see more detail of the waveforms. Unless I take the time to scroll through all the tracks in the editor before closing it, I could easily miss some misconfigured fade. Maybe this command works better for you, but I'll raise the possibility...

goupils wrote:Edit menu is as yo wrote, but auto-crossfade wasn't enable (auto-ripple disabled).


Auto-crossfade is handy when you're doing Source-Destination editing. Any time you add a new clip to an assembly, it will already have your default crossfade applied - no need to "X-ify".

Auto Ripple is something I enable only for specific needs, and most of the time I keep it off, because it will move your clips around. If you're zoomed in, it can be easy to miss what's taking place off-screen.

goupils wrote:I'm working at least on 3 different computers and I already had it on all of them with different version of pyramix. My laptop is Pyramix native v9.0, recently (re)installed - and I used v8.0 & v8.1 (I bought it), & school's computer are (i'm still a student) pyramix masscore dedicated computers, both v8.0 then 8.1


When you work with one of the school's computers, do you take and install your own Settings, Keyboard Shortcuts and Toolbars Layout, which you've built and saved with your laptop (or the other way around)? If you have, it's further evidence that there is something you've set up that is conflicting with the default program behaviour.
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
http://LockwoodARS.com
• Pyramix Native 11.1.6
• Mac Mini 6.2 (Quadcore i7) - Bootcamp 5.1.5621 - Win7 Pro SP1 64
• HP 7100 Mini-tower - Win10 Pro 64 1809
• RME Fireface 800 ASIO driver 3.125 or ASIO4All 2.13