CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

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crna59
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CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 03:57

This has happened to me one too many times now. On Pyramix 9.0.8 (also happened on 9.0.6), whenever you make a CD image and the file has clipping, there are ticks/pops in the rendered file. Rendering them multiple times has the digital artifacts in the same exact place. These files are rendered from WAV, PMF or AIFF, it doesn't matter.

I saved the project as a 8.1 session and pulled it into my Pyramix 8.1 machine and rendered the CD image. Guess what? No digital artifacts!!

I'll attach the files and send to Merging.


Regards,
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

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Graemme
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby Graemme » Sun Aug 03, 2014 06:29

Is your v9 machine running 64 or 32 bit Windows 7? I ask because I just had a report of this occurring in a friend's v9.08-64 bit system and the clipping wasn't present when he rendered the same project in v9.08-32.

Were any plug-ins in use?

gb
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crna59
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 04:25

Yes, this is a 64-bit Win 7 Pro machine. No plugs were used. The files work fine on my v8.1 machine.
Bruce A. Brown
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Graemme
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby Graemme » Thu Aug 07, 2014 06:47

and is your 8.1 machine's OS running 32 or 64 bit?
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crna59
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 01:54

Both machines are 64-bit


Thanks
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

crna59
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 21:13

I haven't gotten anything back from Merging about the files I sent them.
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

crna59
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 07:29

Email and files sent to Merging over 2 months ago. I paid over $616 for ASM. Never again....... :evil:
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
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crna59
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 02:14

Issue is NOT Fixed!!

Ver. 9.1.5
Build 24821
Win 7-64 Pro
Bruce A. Brown
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby Graemme » Sun Dec 07, 2014 03:32

Do you mean that it isn't fixed in *9.1.6* or actually in 9.1.5, as you wrote? It's in the 'fixed' list of the 9.1.6 release notes...
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
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Canada V0R 1X5
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"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"

crna59
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 03:52

Just installed 9.1.6 and will try it in a few minutes.

Was not fixed in 9.1.5 as Merging had told me.
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

crna59
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby crna59 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 07:24

I installed 9.1.6 and looked a the same areas of concern and it appears to be fine now. Why the hell was this a problem for so long and no one notified?

It's a good thing 90% of my business is downloads/tape/vinyl. Hate CD's......
Bruce A. Brown
Puget Sound Studios
Mastering & Post Production
Seattle, WA

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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby MorganN » Mon Dec 08, 2014 02:10

Is this for sessions with sample rates over 44 kHz?
If the master is clipping in its native sample rate (when not 44k), it would generate ticks/pops in any case when make the PMI, wouldn't it?

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but it would be great if Merging could make a way to put a safety on the
rendered PMI so it doesn't clip on the final image. (Either via normalization or built in limiter?)
Just an idea. :idea:

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Graemme
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby Graemme » Mon Dec 08, 2014 03:01

Morgan,

it was a bug in the CD generation process on 64 bit systems. It took a while to find because it didn't show up on every system and therefore was hard to re-create.

As far as 'clamping' the output to prevent clipping goes: "No, Thanks" or "Only if I can turn it off". This can be done already with being mindful of the output ceiling, which limiter plug-in is used, etc. Hepta is quite remarkable at dealing with 'lousy crest factor' input signals and not generating garbage as a result of them.

Cheers,
Graemme
Graemme Brown
Zen Mastering
1460 Wild Rose Drive
Gabriola Island, BC
Canada V0R 1X5
+1.604.874.9096

"A Horus, A Horus; My Kingdom for a Horus!"

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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby MorganN » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:54

Thanks, Graemme!
Agree on your thoughts, but it would be nice to know how it would react before the final SRC stage though.
Guess we're all used to taking clipping at later conversion stages into consideration when setting the output ceiling,
but for MFiT and other codecs we at least have real time analysis to prevent clipping. (i.e. Sonnox Codec Toolbox)

Sorry for going off topic and thanks for the heads up!

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fl
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Re: CD Image ticks/pops/artifacts

Postby fl » Mon Dec 08, 2014 18:20

There's always the option of purchasing the Final Check option, with its mixdown level adjustment feature.
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