NON Real Time Mix REVERB

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RickTarrant
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NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby RickTarrant » Mon Jun 23, 2014 23:56

Has anyone noticed any difference in EFFECTS levels when you mix in Real Time VS NON RT?

I noticed it today when listening back to a NON RT mix. The verb on the vocal track was obnoxious. I double checked the project and it sounded fine. Then I remixed in RT and it too sounded fine. I did a couple of test mixes of just the voice track in both RT and NON and everytime the NON has more verb on it.

Just wondering if this is an old bug that's been around or if this is unique to my system.

Thanks


Rick

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SoundKlang
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby SoundKlang » Tue Jun 24, 2014 09:49

I have a plugin that offers different quality modes: non-oversampling, oversampling and oversampling-on-mixdown. If I am not mistaken, this implies plugins are notified about the current state of the host (realtime playback vs. non-realtime rendering). Maybe the reverb plugin defaults to a different internal processing mode when doing a non-realtime rendering. And if so, maybe that changes the quality or maybe the timing (differences in buffering for realtime playback?) of the generated reverb signal in a way that makes it more perceivable.

I experienced sound differences in various mixdown, rendering or re-recording modes, too. In my configuration, closest to the playback and surprisingly the best soundquality (to my ears) is the re-recording through internal busses and an additional track/mixer strip.

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Lauran
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby Lauran » Tue Jun 24, 2014 14:42

I recently did some tests with Altiverb XL 7 on Pyramix 9.0.7 x64 Masscore wanting to know if Non-rt mixdown in fact yields the same result as RT mixdown (and playback)

There is a difference signal of around -90dB between the RT and NON-rt mixdowns so they are not bit accurate. Though the two are audibly the same.
Two subsequent NON-rt mixdowns are bit-identical so at least there is a consequent result.

More major differences can occur when the mixer is not properly rebuilt for a NON-rt mixdown and (maybe) delay compensations is not set correctly. This happened to me once when doing a mixdown fresh from startup but I can't reliably reproduce this error.

I would recommend doing some test-Mixdowns (RT vs NON-rt) for yourself and find out what exactly happens..

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fl
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby fl » Tue Jun 24, 2014 15:48

RickTarrant wrote:every time the NON has more verb on it.


Which Reverb plugin?
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RickTarrant
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby RickTarrant » Tue Jun 24, 2014 17:40

fl wrote:
RickTarrant wrote:every time the NON has more verb on it.


Which Reverb plugin?



SONNOX Oxford Reverb.

Am I supposed to adjust delay compensation differently for NON RT?
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fl
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby fl » Tue Jun 24, 2014 18:12

RickTarrant wrote:Am I supposed to adjust delay compensation differently for NON RT?


Not as far as I know. Also, I don't see how DC could affect the volume of the reverb...

What do you hear when you null a RT and a non-RT mix? Can you identify the Sonnox parameter that changes, or is it just the input/output gain (that is, the apparent level)?

Is the 'verb on a Strip or on a Sub-Group? What happens if you switch methods (if strip, try sub; if sub, try strip)?

Finally, could there be any weird automation stuff going on with the Sonnox plugin? (It's been known to happen - oh, wait!)
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
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RickTarrant
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby RickTarrant » Tue Jun 24, 2014 20:29

I see that I have a few more trouble shooting hoops to jump through before I can deduce what's going on.

Right now I have the reverb returning on a subgroup.

The only time I have experienced automation weirdness was in version 9.
I have since downgraded back to version 8.1.11
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Graemme
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby Graemme » Thu Jul 03, 2014 02:42

I've seen this problem with the Lexicon reverb plug-in: the level of the reverb was 6 dB out of whack (right now I forget whether it was louder or quieter.) The problem appeared to be with the master send or return level, as the proportions sent from each channel were still correct.

This was in version 8.0.x

Rick, please send a report to the Merging support team.

Best,

Graemme
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JVergence
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Re: NON Real Time Mix REVERB

Postby JVergence » Mon Aug 04, 2014 06:45

I've just been informed that Altiverb 7 XL (WIN) has an issue with output level on previously automated Altiverb 6 XL 96/192khz EDLs . Although I haven't made any comparison measurements, it appears the difference is around -6db.

JV