Cleaning microphone recordings

Pyramix Native users forum
Forum rules
The Merging Technologies team cannot be held responsible for support queries logged on the public forums. If a support query is logged here and only here, it may not be found and dealt with by the appropriate team.
To ensure that your support issue or bug report is dealt with properly and in good time, please use the link to the tech support request form page on the Merging website.
Make sure to let us know what version you are using when you send your mail. THANKS!
SoundKlang
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 18:35

Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby SoundKlang » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:18

When for example recording an acoustic guitar, I cut the clips around fret noises. Then I have three clips: before noise, noise and after noise. With the clip gain I lower the noise clip so that it does not disturb the listening, but not so much that it would sound unnaturally.

But the sudden gain changes can introduce slight crackles. I have to apply very short fade ins/fade outs at the boundaries of all three clips. Maybe crossfades would be a better solution. Does Pyramix Native offer a setting to automatically fade in, fade out or crossfade the resulting clips when cutting a clip?

Another solution could be to use a level automation curve. I just prefer using cut and clip gain because these can be done using the keyboard only. Any other suggestions how to handle such isolated noises in recordings without altering the timing of the clip's content?

Thank you in advance.

klaukholm
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 00:36
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby klaukholm » Sat Apr 05, 2014 13:32

We use denoisers to great effect when dealing with this sort of challenge.

User avatar
fl
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 19:55
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby fl » Sat Apr 05, 2014 14:13

SoundKlang wrote:But the sudden gain changes can introduce slight crackles. I have to apply very short fade ins/fade outs at the boundaries of all three clips. Maybe crossfades would be a better solution. Does Pyramix Native offer a setting to automatically fade in, fade out or crossfade the resulting clips when cutting a clip?


If you're happy with the results you get with Clip Gain (apart from the sudden transitions), then you should read the section in the manual about Envelope Punch on page 109. With this tool, you don't need to cut your clips up - just highlight the area around the fret squeak, with a little extra on either side, and type Control-Shift-P whereupon a little window will pop up with two fields, one for the amount of level change, and the other for the amount of time for the fades to and from the "punched" level. All done in one operation where before you were doing three.

That said, and as Kjetil pointed out, you can work wonders with the Spectral Repair tools found in some of the current de-noising software that's available (says the guy in the middle of removing loud page turns from a vocal recital).
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
http://LockwoodARS.com
Native 11.1.5
Win7 Pro SP1 64
Bootcamp 5.1.5621
Mac Mini 6.2 (Quadcore i7)
RME Fireface 800, driver version 3.125

SoundKlang
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 18:35

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby SoundKlang » Sat Apr 05, 2014 16:49

Thanks for the answers.

Maybe I am a bit too picky about this. I am not recording full arrangements, but single instruments for multitrack arrangements. For this prupose it is not necessary to remove an isolated audio event (a squeak or cough or page turns) from a signal while leaving the rest of that signal at that same moment in time as unaffected as possible.

Working on such single tracks, all the denoisers I tested seemed to affect the recorded image, especially the room. That somehow contradícted the effort spent to get the most natural or better believable sound from microphone recordings. At some point I gave up on denoisers (not the most expansive). Probably it's just that the sound results with simple gain changes come closest to my idea of perfection. Kind of an old school approach, here. Also the workflow with simple gain changes is quicker than setting up a denoiser and rendering.

The envelope punch function is a good solution when working with an amplitude envelope. But cutting the clip allows to make fine adjustments to the level at any time by just using the keyboard, while using the envelope punch function needs subsequent editing to be done on the amplitude envelope, that is with the mouse, which in turn requires a big vertical screen resolution per track and means to change from "all tracks" to "few tracks" and after editing back to "all tracks" and so on ... somehow disturbing my workflow when in the midst of a creative process - you know, poor oversensitive artists soul ... ;-)

I am sure the solutions you both recommended provide the best results for your work. Just for my work I need something else.

klaukholm
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 00:36
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby klaukholm » Sat Apr 05, 2014 17:12

Using a spectral denoiser on a specific sound does not impact the image or the room as you say atleast as far as Izotope and algorithmix are concerned. I don't have cedar, so I can't comment, but I am sure it yields top results as well.

Sunds like you have been applying it across the track which is not the way too go.

Of course, in a session - the best way to go is for the producer to get the player to moderate the playing if possible.

User avatar
fl
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 19:55
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby fl » Sat Apr 05, 2014 19:08

SoundKlang wrote:The envelope punch function is a good solution when working with an amplitude envelope. But cutting the clip allows to make fine adjustments to the level at any time by just using the keyboard, while using the envelope punch function needs subsequent editing to be done on the amplitude envelope


I'm not sure I understand why you'd need to do further work on the envelope once you've introduced one of the "dips" with the Punch function. If you didn't choose enough gain change (or too much), you can always undo what you did and try again. After you've done a few, you get a feel for how many dB you need.

I will grant you that fishing around for one of those little "break points" in the envelope line can require more precision than I can muster on occasion, and I'll frequently introduce another break point when I'm just trying to grab one that already exists. It sure would be nice if they were a little larger...

That said, you can grab the whole line between two break points in a selected (highlighted) area, by holding down the Command key while using the mouse to grab it - the mouse pointer changes shape to show this.

I frequently use this method for mouth noises in spoken word recordings, as little dips in level work better, and sound more natural, than obliterating them with Spectral Repair.
Frank Lockwood, Toronto, ON, Canada
http://LockwoodARS.com
Native 11.1.5
Win7 Pro SP1 64
Bootcamp 5.1.5621
Mac Mini 6.2 (Quadcore i7)
RME Fireface 800, driver version 3.125

User avatar
allemano bernard@neuf.fr
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 09:49

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby allemano bernard@neuf.fr » Sat Apr 05, 2014 19:28

Hi,

A different and good way : using a "dynamic equalizer" (I'm not shure of the translation), to reduce only the frequency(ies) of the noise, I like it, because of the more natural result than the gain reduction...

In fact, I like this kind of noise, because it's.... life

But.... IMO Guys, IMO :)
pyramix 10 Native; windows 10 64 Bits; Asrock Z 270 PRO 4; intel core i7 7700 4.20 GHz; 16G DDR4;
1 X M2 Nvme for system; 1 X SSD for medias; 1 WD Caviar Black 1T. for backups.

SoundKlang
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 18:35

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby SoundKlang » Sat Apr 05, 2014 23:37

Thanks for the replies!

I'll keep in mind to check out the algorithmix and izotope denoisers.

I agree, I do not want to completely remove the fret noise, but IMO depending on the arrangement such noises sometimes draw too much attention. Which brand of "dynamic euqalizer" do you use?

Thanks for pointing to the envelope functions. It made me read the manual again and even though the track envelope and me still live in different worlds I found some shortcuts for working with splitting the clips and applying crossfades. If interested:

- select region across clip(s)
- click region to split all clips in the region at left and right region boundaries
- 1x for the left split and 1x for the right split: Ctrl+click the lower fade handle of one of the clips and drag in the direction of the adjacent clip to create a crossfade
- select clip(s) with noise section of the signal
- "g" (customized shortcut key for Clip/Gain) + enter dB value via keyboard

In a comparison I prefered crossfades over fade outs/fade ins. Enjoyable gain values range from -6 dB or less (solo passages) to -24 dB (masked by other instruments).
Last edited by SoundKlang on Tue Apr 08, 2014 14:37, edited 2 times in total.

klaukholm
Posts: 501
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 00:36
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby klaukholm » Sun Apr 06, 2014 00:06

Very often aiming for lessening rather than eliminating is not only sufficient, but also often sounds better. Many times even a 3db reduction of a disturbance will make a tremendous difference to the music.

User avatar
allemano bernard@neuf.fr
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 09:49

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby allemano bernard@neuf.fr » Sun Apr 06, 2014 01:02

Which brand of "dynamic euqalizer" do you use?


A little cheap tool : TB FIX, works fine in my configuration,

Best regards

bernard
pyramix 10 Native; windows 10 64 Bits; Asrock Z 270 PRO 4; intel core i7 7700 4.20 GHz; 16G DDR4;
1 X M2 Nvme for system; 1 X SSD for medias; 1 WD Caviar Black 1T. for backups.

SoundKlang
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 18:35

Re: Cleaning microphone recordings

Postby SoundKlang » Tue Apr 08, 2014 14:36

FYI: In the following post J. Wajer described a more efficient solution

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10224#p32154